Apple7
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The Trinity is confirmed as Truth in the Koran.
Contradictions In The Quran
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
The Trinity is confirmed as Truth in the Koran.
Apple7
New member
Islam 101...
Islam 101...
Nonsense, muslim.
You don't know enough about your very own Koran to be spreading this cliché propaganda.
Sit down before you hurt yourself.
Observe...
الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون
Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi ma lakum min doonihi min waliyyin wala shafeeAAin afala tatathakkaroona yudabbiru al-amra mina alssama-i ila al-ardi thumma yaAAruju ilayhi fee yawmin kana miqdaruhu alfa sanatin mimma taAAuddoona
'allah' whom he created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them in six days, then he sat on the throne, none from a mediator and nor intercessors for you from other than him, so do you receive admonition? He manages the affairs continuously; the matter from the clouds to the earth, then ascends to him in a day was his measurement one thousand years from what you count. (32.4 – 5)
So...
Before you cast your stones, be aware that your god 'allah' must have been really, really tired after creating, because he had to sit down and rest on his throne!
But wait...
'allah' created in six days - each day a thousand years - thus, this makes the world out to be 6,000 years old!
I sure hope that you are a young earth creationist....as most muslims are NOT!
Islam 101...
Nonsense, muslim.
You don't know enough about your very own Koran to be spreading this cliché propaganda.
Sit down before you hurt yourself.
Observe...
الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون
Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi ma lakum min doonihi min waliyyin wala shafeeAAin afala tatathakkaroona yudabbiru al-amra mina alssama-i ila al-ardi thumma yaAAruju ilayhi fee yawmin kana miqdaruhu alfa sanatin mimma taAAuddoona
'allah' whom he created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them in six days, then he sat on the throne, none from a mediator and nor intercessors for you from other than him, so do you receive admonition? He manages the affairs continuously; the matter from the clouds to the earth, then ascends to him in a day was his measurement one thousand years from what you count. (32.4 – 5)
So...
Before you cast your stones, be aware that your god 'allah' must have been really, really tired after creating, because he had to sit down and rest on his throne!
But wait...
'allah' created in six days - each day a thousand years - thus, this makes the world out to be 6,000 years old!
I sure hope that you are a young earth creationist....as most muslims are NOT!
KingdomRose
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You are disputing yourself. YOU worship the second-in-command, Jesus. True Christians worship his Father, Jehovah, whom Jesus called "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)
KingdomRose
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The Trinity is 'a god', and He commands that nobody, except Him, be worshiped.
So why do you worship Jesus :doh:
Just because those like yourself refuse to accept the validity of the Trinity, and would rather be seen as someone with little rational depth, doesn't make any difference of it.
You all are in league with the swarm of historical American heresy of the 1800's, Muslims, and Jews- the only thing 'corrupted' is yourselves
Oh come on. It has been explained that "worship" is a word that has a couple different levels in the Scriptures. "Worship" to a human in high position or to an angel is not the kind of worship that one would give to Almighty God. The kind of "worship" we give to important humans or angels is actually an act of respect, not the exclusive worship that we would give to the one and only true God.
Jesus called the Father, Jehovah, "the only true God." (John 17:3) He also called Him "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)
Why do you insist on ignoring what Jesus himself has said? It's baffling to me.
KingdomRose
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But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is an important prophet, but Mohammed is more important because he came after Jesus? And I don't understand why Jesus is even considered an important prophet to you if you think he was lying. Wouldn't that make him anathema to any God-fearing person? He said that he was the ONLY mediator between God and men, and that no one can get to God except through HIM. (John 14:6; ITimothy 2:5) But you don't agree, am I right?
Apple7
New member
Oh come on. It has been explained that "worship" is a word that has a couple different levels in the Scriptures. "Worship" to a human in high position or to an angel is not the kind of worship that one would give to Almighty God. The kind of "worship" we give to important humans or angels is actually an act of respect, not the exclusive worship that we would give to the one and only true God.
Jesus called the Father, Jehovah, "the only true God." (John 17:3) He also called Him "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)
Why do you insist on ignoring what Jesus himself has said? It's baffling to me.
Let’s review Rev 3.14…
και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου
Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou
Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:
Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.
First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.
και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου
In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.
This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.
This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.
The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.
Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.
Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.
Jesus is God.
All things came into being through Jesus.
Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…
Peter to the Jews
ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν
ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen
The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)
Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.
Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).
KingdomRose
New member
There are many corrupted scriptures, one of which is the words added after "three witness bearers" in IJohn 5:7. More recent manuscripts (MSS) add "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one." Those words are left out of earlier MSS. They are obviously added much later than the original letter and early MSS.
Another is ITimothy 3:16 where someone wrote "God" into the verse. Eg., the KJV renders it this way: "And, without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh..."
A majority of more modern versions have corrected this corruption, going back to earlier MSS. The NASB, for example, translates the verse this way: "By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: HE WHO was revealed in the flesh..."
There are dozens of other versions that say the same thing. "God" was added some time AFTER the original letter was written. These are only two examples of many.
God HAS preserved His Word, and that preservation is most clearly seen in the New World Translation. Check out the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, a scholar that is affiliated with no particular church. He examines several translations.
Apple7
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Nope.
Jesus is declared to be God in the Koran....just as He is in the Holy Bible.
KingdomRose
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Where?
Apple7
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Apple7
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One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not “three”, but instead, it is “one”, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit…
يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا
Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan
4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.
Observe that this ayah is directed at ‘The Book’s family’ (ahla alkitabi) – which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.
For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.
In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say “Three” - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.
This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…and what it is, by the example of “one”.
6days
New member
Kingdom Rose said:
You may be correct about that verse. My Bible reads "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.". I think you will find that other study Bibles which read "three witnesses" mention it is controversial in the footnotes and also say that doctrine should not be based on this verse.
I have checked him out before, and found him particularily biased although he claims he isn't.Kingdom Rose said:
Now..... Kingdom, I think all Christians would acknowledge we have translations, and that no translation is perfect. However, we can compare various translations against each other to help determine accuracy. We also can check the credentials of the various translation teams.
So... Would you agree that the NWT is an imperfect translation? (I would suggest its corrupted by church doctrine).
And... who are the translators?
Kingdom Rose..... Rather than being married to a religion, why not trust and receive the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Savior, and become His Bride...so that you can have eternal life and go to heaven?
egyptianmuslim
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There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief
Apple7
New member
More clinic on your Koran...
More clinic on your Koran...
It never ceases to amaze me at how completely and utterly ignorant you followers of islam are with regards to your Koran.
The very word 'injil' is an Arabicized word from the Greek word 'Gospel'.
As such, it MUST impart the same original meaning as 'Gospel'...of which, means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ!'
More clinic on your Koran...
It never ceases to amaze me at how completely and utterly ignorant you followers of islam are with regards to your Koran.
The very word 'injil' is an Arabicized word from the Greek word 'Gospel'.
As such, it MUST impart the same original meaning as 'Gospel'...of which, means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ!'
egyptianmuslim
New member
Quran doesn't say that the extend of the day of creation is 1000 yrs but the day of the heaven is indefined.....read:
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.
[Quran 70 : 4 ]
.......
egyptianmuslim
New member
Apple, about going of God to rest in the 7th day.....read:
And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......
The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5
And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......
The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5
Apple7
New member
I showed you the context of 32.4 - 5, and it most assuredly states that each of the six days is 1,000 years in length.
Apple7
New member
If your god 'allah' has to sit down after creating, then he must be tired.
Either that, or your Koran contradicts itself...
That just shows that the earth is rotating upon its axis....and the accuracy of the Biblical narrative.
Apple7
New member
Then you have just eliminated yourself, and 99% of all muslims.
egyptianmuslim
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