Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[popsthebuilder]

There was none. Meshak accused me of something, and I demanded her to show me where I did what she said.

Oh...

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[truthjourney]

This is false.

We as JW's are meant to have the same one mind in relation to the core teachings of the bible, God's true identity along with Jesus, the condition of the dead, God's purpose of the earth, Adamic sins, etc.

No it is not false. It is true. JWs are meant to have the same mind in relation to the Governing Body not of the bible.
Rutherford had the nerve to limit who Jesus was the mediator of when scripture clearly says that Jesus is the one mediator between God and men. At least Russell believed what the scriptures said about that but Rutherford changed it. That's what the Governing Body does though constantly changing their teachings and doctrine and calling it "new light". Is that what truth means? Something that keeps changing? That is not my idea of truth. Jesus as mediator is a very important Christian belief not to be changed that way. That is serious error. But certainly not the only error they have made. It's just the tip of the iceberg.

We are meant to have this one mind so that the church/true worshippers are not divided, since different teachings cause divisions which in turn causes sects and group off-shoots. This is 100% scriptural;

"True worshippers", yeah they like to use that term, don't they? Everybody else will be destroyed in Armageddon, right?
As far as different teachings causing divisions, the Governing Body are experts at that. Yes indeed they are.

(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

Do you really believe there are no divisions among JWs and that they are completely united? Maybe there wouldn't be divisions or at least have a better chance if the Governing Body weren't placed so high up on a pedestal that they think they are actually the mediator between God and men and that they are above Jesus himself. And if they wouldn't claim that people have to go through them to get to Jesus and God. And think they are above being questioned or doubted as if they think they are perfect or something. Well they are not, far from it.

JW's are allowed to have a difference in opinion in regards to other teachings but are advised to keep it to themselves less they cause a division (see 1 Cor 1:10 again).

Yeah you better keep it to yourself if you have a difference in opinion to what the Governing Body teaches and you know why unless you are new to that organization, you should be well aware of why.

Everything else, other than the core doctrines, is down to individuals conscience decisions or personal interpretation.

Yeah right. Tell that to somebody who doesn't know better.

 

[KingdomRose]

I tried to comment here yesterday but got totally blocked. It seems like the administrator is afraid of what I have to say. Reminds me of the Pharisees in the first century who blocked their ears when Stephen tried to tell them something that was true.

 

[KingdomRose]

Funnily enough, last month's Bible Study CD from BEL was John Vol. 2: Life With Jesus, which includes the following passages:

Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. - John 8:54-59 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John8:54-59&version=NKJV

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:25-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:25-39&version=NKJV

So how does this negate anything JWs teach? What you quoted totally blows your pagan trinity out of the water.

 

[KingdomRose]

So if He was just the Son of God, then why here:

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:25-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:25-39&version=NKJV

Did the Jews want to stone Him for claiming to be God?

Do you realize yet that "I and my Father are one" just means that THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT, just like Jesus, Jehovah, and the DISCIPLES were all "one"???? (John 17:21-23) Can't you understand that yet?

The Jews ACCUSED Jesus of "making himself God," but that was not the truth. Jesus went on to REFUTE them by saying that he was THE SON OF GOD. Read and understand your own quotes.

 

[KingdomRose]

So who is Alpha and Omega? [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] [MENTION=15324]NWL[/MENTION] [MENTION=17493]KingdomRose[/MENTION]

Jehovah, the Most High. The God and Father of Jesus Christ.

 

[KingdomRose]

No, that teaching comes from mainstream Christianity, not from the Bible.

No, you have put the teaching from mainstream Christianity over the plain teachings of scripture when it comes to the Trinity doctrine.
This is even more clear whenever a Trinitarian claims a Non-Trinitarian cannot be a Christian because they don't believe the Trinity doctrine.

Since the Bible never teaches the Trinity doctrine, believing in the Trinity doctrine is not required to be a Christian.
The Trinity doctrine is a distraction from the plain teachings of the Bible.

Excellent.

 

[KingdomRose]

The beginning of the story tells us that Satan was tempting the Son, not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Matt 4:1

So what is your point?

 

[KingdomRose]

God says "do not worship anyone/thing besides ME"

Jesus accepts worship.

No other Godly creature accepted worship.

Either Jesus is God, and worthy of worship

OR

Jesus is NOT God, and should not be trusted, because He accepted worship that belonged to God.

No, Jesus never accepted worship belonging only to God. Never. Your understanding of the term "worship" is lacking. It has been explained that "worship" can be applied to anyone in authority, and it is merely a showing of respect for that individual. The same word is applied to judges, governors, Caesar, anyone who is in a position of authority. The worship that belongs only to God is the worship that is given directly to him as God Almighty. No one gives anyone else worship that should be applied only to God. Unless they are wrong and decide to give worship to another person that is not God. Like yourselves.

 

[KingdomRose]

Yes, I've never seen that before. You and glory have put forth a few great proofs for our Triune God that I haven't heard yet. I'm trying to write them down.

Their "proofs" are full of holes. You would be better off to pay closer attention to what genuine original and myself have posted. The trinity doctrine was not even formed until the 4th century! It is not apparent in any of the Scriptures. People have taken the Scriptures and twisted them beyond belief. What were your thoughts on my posts when you read through what I had to say on the old thread "Jesus is not God"? The subject was thoroughly assessed. Trinitarians were debunked.

 

[KingdomRose]

It also teaches that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. So either there's three Gods, which could contradict the rest of the Bible, which teaches that there is only one God, or there is one God, and three Persons. Again, I refer you back to the box I posted above.

You believe in three Gods, which contradicts the rest of the Bible. I have repeatedly brought this to your attention. All Trinitarians that I have talked to have said that:

1) The Father is God.......that is one God.

2) The Son is God.....another God.

3) The H.S. is God.....yet another God.


THREE GODS. You are a polytheist.

 

[KingdomRose]

Then you do deny Jesus is God come in the flesh.

Why won't you just come right out and admit it?

Afraid?

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus is "God come in the flesh." That is why we don't believe it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, Jesus never accepted worship belonging only to God. Never. Your understanding of the term "worship" is lacking. It has been explained that "worship" can be applied to anyone in authority, and it is merely a showing of respect for that individual. The same word is applied to judges, governors, Caesar, anyone who is in a position of authority. The worship that belongs only to God is the worship that is given directly to him as God Almighty. No one gives anyone else worship that should be applied only to God. Unless they are wrong and decide to give worship to another person that is not God. Like yourselves.

Unfortunately (For you) you're a member of a Cult and not a member of the 'Body of Christ.' Therefore, if you should pass from this world before receiving the truth of the Gospel, you will at some point in time, stand before God and be judged by your works and subsequently be cast into the 'Lake of Fire,' for eternity. However, if you should hear the Gospel and place all your faith in Christ and not yourself, your cult, or anything else, you will be forgiven of your sins and inherit eternal life with God.

 

[KingdomRose]

Um no, obviously you don't. Your cult teaches Jesus (sucks I have to answer for a JW about his organizations own teachings) really is Michael before Jesus came to earth. So with that in mind, the answer "the WORD" is really Michael in JW doctrine. :sigh: For further info to the readers, here is a link to the official site of JW's. Who Is Michael the Archangel?



I simply stated what the Genesis account says, which says,

"26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Yes, we believe that Jesus was called Michael before he came to Earth, and also after he returned to heaven. You haven't been able to offer any good argument to rebut that.

 

[KingdomRose]

I love studying with GloryDaz because she is willing to trust scripture no matter what her own personal convictions might be as to what is "mean".
I don't have a problem with GOD being mean at times and nice at times.
I think GOD is the nicest you are ever gonna find, and the meanest you are ever gonna find.
After all, there is a purpose for both. Ecc 3:1-8
So to make a claim that only peace is the right way is not correct at all.

Sadly, you are both blinded. There is much to be said about Scripture that is centered on the ORIGINAL LANGUAGES, and many translation committees have had their say about what the earliest manuscripts actually indicate. It has been repeatedly shown to you how insidious many translation committees can be and have been about rendering verses according to their own biases. You have been told. Yet you blindly forge on with your very weak doctrines. They are upheld by people like you who fear to separate yourselves from all the other people on the wide road leading to destruction (Matt.7:13) because you are comfortable in that gang. The doctrine of the Trinity is as spurious as they come, and even secular history itself confirms this. You ignore both the Scriptures themselves and what history has to say.

 

[KingdomRose]

I believe what the Bible states about it.
That is why I asked you to provide the verses you are using as the basis of the question.

There is no doubt that Jesus came in the flesh, the Bible clearly states that.
There is no doubt that Jesus is the Son of God, the Bible clearly states that.

So, where are you getting the ideas that allow you to drop "Son of" from "Son of God" when speaking of Jesus?
Those ideas are not coming from the Bible, since Jesus is called the "Son of God" 46 times in the Bible and never called God, since that is what the Father is called.

Excellent.

 

[KingdomRose]

So you are left with only two choices.

Jesus is God or Jesus is not God.

The Lord our God is ONE LORD.

Deut. 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: 5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.​

Jesus corrected satan....don't make Him correct YOU.

Deut. 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah. Matthew 4:6-7 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.​

Jesus is not God. In Matthew when Jesus said what he did there to the Devil, he was quoting from Deuteronomy. In Deuteronomy Jehovah's name appears there as "the LORD" your God. Anyone can see this in the Hebrew text. So when Jesus said that to Satan, he was saying that Jehovah God in heaven should not be tempted to give His Son power to do something that is not aligned with His will. Jehovah had never approved of His Son jumping off the battlement of the Temple.

Can your mind wrap itself around that?

 

[KingdomRose]

Nope.
Scripture teaches a triune GOD., and we trust scripture above all else.

Nope it doesn't.

 

[KingdomRose]

You won't find Jesus specifically saying "I am the Savior" either.

Yes he does. Guess you missed that.

 

[KingdomRose]

The world is full of folks that want to reduce our Creator Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ to be less than what He is.
Pharisees galore!

How do you reckon with the fact that you are reducing Jesus' God and Father Jehovah to be less than what He is?