Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

glorydaz

glorydaz

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TrevorL said:
Greetings glorydaz,I doubt very much that the scribe who talked with Jesus, who like most Jews were strictly monotheistic, walked away on this occasion believing that Jesus had included Himself in the Shema, as the One God, Yahweh. They believed that Yahweh was in heaven, and would agree with Jesus’ prayer, Our Father who is in heaven.

There is a need to distinguish between the two words usually translated “LORD” and “Lord” in the OT and the following shows the distinction:
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

This distinction between Jesus as Lord and God the Father as both Yahweh and Lord is evident also in the following:
Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Philippians 2:8-11 (KJV): 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Whatever you decide as the meaning of “Lord” here in this Philippians reference, whether Lord in the sense of Master or Ruler and King or even the Name Yahweh, nevertheless the Name and position and status has been given to Jesus by God the Father, because God the Father has now exalted Jesus. When we bow the knee to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father, not to God the Son and not to the Trinity. Jesus now represents Yahweh, God the Father, but he is a separate person from God the Father.

There is only one God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Well, you're in error on that. Of course many of the Jews denied the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it seems to be a stumbling block to the very day....as you've shown here.
 
Apple7

Apple7

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TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7,As you suggest, it is true that Paul is quoting or alluding to Isaiah 45:22-24, but as there is only one God the Father, Yahweh, then in bowing the knee to Jesus, he is the representative of Yahweh, and the glory goes to God the Father as Philippians 2:10-11 clearly states. Philippians 2:9-11 could teach that Jesus is bearing the Name Yahweh in his role of representing God the Father, but this is the Name that Jesus was given after his exaltation.

Another perspective is that the name above every name is speaking of reputation, and thus the name Jesus is exalted. The name Jesus already incorporates the Name Yahweh Matthew 1:21, Acts 4:10,12.

There is only one God, the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
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From thread to thread, forum to forum, you go, Trev....working the same Trinitarian English renderings, and lamely attempting to say something that they most assuredly do not.

It is great that you realize that your scripture 'du jour' directly quotes Isaiah 45 - but, once again, you ignore context.

Isaiah 45.18 declares that the Creator of the Universe, Yahweh, to be haelohim (i.e. all the Gods, plural). Remember how you were clinic-ed on this term prior, and ended-up just walking away, defeated...

In fact, Isaiah is pregnant with Triune passages, that you wish to ignore, as thus...

Isa 54.5

For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.

So...no, Trev, your 'Father-Only' worship does NOT fly with anyone even remotely familiar with scripture.

The Trinity cannot be refuted.

Period.
 
T

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again JudgeRightly, glorydaz and Apple7,
JudgeRightly said:
What other "representative" of God ever allowed a human being to bow the knee to him? Answer? ABSOLUTELY NONE.
If Jesus were a created being, even an exalted one (which Hebrews 1 rather explicitly goes against), then He, being a godly creature, would not have accepted worship due God.
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glorydaz said:
Well, you're in error on that. Of course many of the Jews denied the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it seems to be a stumbling block to the very day....as you've shown here.
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Apple7 said:
From thread to thread, forum to forum, you go, Trev....working the same Trinitarian English renderings, and lamely attempting to say something that they most assuredly do not. The Trinity cannot be refuted. Period.
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I appreciate your responses. I had already stated that I was leaving this thread, but had a glance and was motivated to reply when I saw glorydaz using the same sort of logic and methods that is characteristic of Apple7’s posts. I feel content with what I have posted in many posts in this thread, even if the three of you reject what I have stated.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again JudgeRightly, glorydaz and Apple7,
I appreciate your responses. I had already stated that I was leaving this thread, but had a glance and was motivated to reply when I saw glorydaz using the same sort of logic and methods that is characteristic of Apple7’s posts. I feel content with what I have posted in many posts in this thread, even if the three of you reject what I have stated.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Whatever makes you happy, Trev...
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Mark 12: 28. Then one of the Scribes, who had heard them disputing and well knew that Jesus had given them an answer to the point, and a forcible one, came forward and asked Him, "Which is the chief of all the Commandments?" 29.

"The chief Commandment," replied Jesus, "is this: <`Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;

30. and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy whole soul, thy whole mind, and thy whole strength.'>

32. So the Scribe said to Him, "Rightly, in very truth, Rabbi, have you said that <He stands alone, and there is none but He;>

33. and <To love Him with all one's heart, with all one's understanding, and with all one's strength, and to love one's fellow man no less than oneself,> is far better than all our <whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices.">

34. Perceiving that the Scribe had answered wisely Jesus said to him,

"You are not far from the Kingdom of God." No one from that time forward ventured to put any question to Him.

Christ is the Spirit of GOD.

Christ is wholly of GOD.

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drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Mark 12: 28. Then one of the Scribes, who had heard them disputing and well knew that Jesus had given them an answer to the point, and a forcible one, came forward and asked Him, "Which is the chief of all the Commandments?" 29.

"The chief Commandment," replied Jesus, "is this: <`Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;

30. and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy whole soul, thy whole mind, and thy whole strength.'>

32. So the Scribe said to Him, "Rightly, in very truth, Rabbi, have you said that <He stands alone, and there is none but He;>

33. and <To love Him with all one's heart, with all one's understanding, and with all one's strength, and to love one's fellow man no less than oneself,> is far better than all our <whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices.">

34. Perceiving that the Scribe had answered wisely Jesus said to him,

"You are not far from the Kingdom of God." No one from that time forward ventured to put any question to Him.

Christ is the Spirit of GOD.

Christ is wholly of GOD.

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Point?
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Seeing as how our GOD is one GOD, Spirit, and not to be likened to creation of any sort including persons or people or men, it is according to scripture.....it just happens to also be rational and logical unlike the trinity doctrine which is none of those things.
drbrumley said:
You just try to rationalize it by you're own understanding. Like Keypurr.
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JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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popsthebuilder said:
Seeing as how our GOD is one GOD, Spirit, and not to be likened to creation of any sort including persons or people or men, it is according to scripture.....it just happens to also be rational and logical unlike the trinity doctrine which is none of those things.

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You accuse us of likening God to His creation.

You have it backwards.

We are saying God is three Persons, and He created man as a person, in His image.
 
JudgeRightly

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popsthebuilder said:
Seeing as how our GOD is one GOD, Spirit, and not to be likened to creation of any sort including persons or people or men, it is according to scripture.....it just happens to also be rational and logical unlike the trinity doctrine which is none of those things.

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Personhood was given to man by God, not the other way around.
 
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popsthebuilder

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"We are saying God is three Persons"

And I am saying such is polytheistic idol worship.

The three you speak of are singular in Spirit, and the temporal will be brought to nothing....so why the division? Why the focus on the physical; as if the body of Christ is GOD almighty.

Can you even see the problem with this?
JudgeRightly said:
You accuse us of likening God to His creation.

You have it backwards.

We are saying God is three Persons, and He created man as a person, in His image.
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JudgeRightly

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popsthebuilder said:
Go ahead and show the scripture that says GOD blew his personhood into us as opposed to spirit.

Show me the Greek derivative for the word personhood or trinity.

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Sounds like you're trying to argue against a straw man.

Try reading my post for comprehension.

God made man. Man is a person. Therefore God made a person.

How could God create a person without Himself being MORE than a person. God is three Persons, therefore He was able to create one person. (please note the "P" and "p")
 
JudgeRightly

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popsthebuilder said:
"We are saying God is three Persons"

And I am saying such is polytheistic idol worship.
Click to expand...

Then you clearly don't understand my position. If you did, you wouldn't make such a straw man argument.

TRINITARIANS ARE NOT POLYTHEISTS! We worship ONE God, who is three Persons, Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

The three you speak of are singular in Spirit, and the temporal will be brought to nothing....so why the division? Why the focus on the physical; as if the body of Christ is GOD almighty.
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What gibberish is this?

The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost. Three Persons.
God. One Being.
Three Whos. One What.

God is Spirit. Spirit is God's essence. Do I need to call AMR in here to explain it again?

Why is this so hard for you to grasp this simple (yet infinitely complex) concept.

Can you even see the problem with this?

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Apparently you can't see the problems with your arguments against my position.
 
Apple7

Apple7

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popsthebuilder said:
Mark 12: 28. Then one of the Scribes, who had heard them disputing and well knew that Jesus had given them an answer to the point, and a forcible one, came forward and asked Him, "Which is the chief of all the Commandments?" 29.

"The chief Commandment," replied Jesus, "is this: <`Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;

30. and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, thy whole soul, thy whole mind, and thy whole strength.'>

32. So the Scribe said to Him, "Rightly, in very truth, Rabbi, have you said that <He stands alone, and there is none but He;>

33. and <To love Him with all one's heart, with all one's understanding, and with all one's strength, and to love one's fellow man no less than oneself,> is far better than all our <whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices.">

34. Perceiving that the Scribe had answered wisely Jesus said to him,

"You are not far from the Kingdom of God." No one from that time forward ventured to put any question to Him.

Christ is the Spirit of GOD.

Christ is wholly of GOD.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Nope.

We have already been over this with you numerous times...
 
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