Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

Apple7

Apple7

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TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7, The ‘ha’ portion simply means ‘the’ if I am reading my reference books correctly. Thus they were to come before the God or the Judges. I suggest it means the Judges who represented God, those to whom “the word of God came” John 10:34-35.
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If you acknowledge that TWO different words are in view, then what is your rational for having them mean the same thing?




TrevorL said:
I have attempted to use NT expositions of some of these OT passages. You may disagree with my understanding of the judges but you have not answered Psalm 8:5 quoted in Hebrews 2:7 as “angels”. Here your only defence was you tried to avoid the obvious by transporting a word or phrase out of another context.
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We have already covered this time and again.

The author of Hebrews used the LXX as the reference.





TrevorL said:
Actually my present understanding of John 10:30-36 and the judges was a gradual process. I was invited to a SDA seminar on Daniel. I attended a number of their sessions, was a bit out of place on Daniel 2 because of my belief in the 1000 years upon the earth Daniel 2:35,44 rather than their heaven going. But one evening when many were away they decided to have the seminar on the Trinity. One of the key verses was John 10:30, and a murmur of consent was that this verse was a mainstay of the Trinity. I disagreed saying that I believe that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is the Son of God, but I could not substantiate my belief from Jesus’ answers in John 10:32-36. What I have presented concerning the judges was developed by my own research and involvement in another forum over many years, not even referencing any of my fellowships’ literature.
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John 10 does nothing to support your worldview,
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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popsthebuilder said:
Your entire post is nothing but faulty conjecture based on the doctrines of men.

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Saying it doesn't make it so, and refusing to engage my argument only shows that either you don't have an answer to my argument, in which you should be able to humble yourself and admit such, or you're a coward. Either make your argument against the points I present, or leave the thread if you don't want to discuss.

keypurr said:
Wrong again friend, the word "God" is a position, like King, both the Bishops and Geneva Bible call the LOGOS an IT.

Bishops
Joh 1:3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.
Joh 1:4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva
Joh 1:3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
Joh 1:4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
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So what? Elsewhere in those same Bibles they use pronouns like "He" and "Him" and "Himself" when referring to the Word of God...

Such as Revelation 19:11-16:

Bishop's Bible:
11 And I sawe heauen open, & beholde a white horse, and he that sate vpon him was called faythfull and true, and in ryghteousnesse he doth iudge and make battayle 12 His eyes were as a flambe of fire, and on his head were many crownes, and he had a name written, that no man knewe but he hym selfe 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipt in blood, and his name is called the worde of God 14 And the warryers which were in heauen folowed hym vppon whyte horses, clothed with whyte and pure raynes15 And out of his mouth went a sharpe sworde, that with it he shoulde smyte the heathen: and he shall rule the with a rodde of yron. And he trode the winefat of fiercenesse and wrath of almightie God 16 And hath on his vesture and on his thygh a name written, King of kinges, and Lorde of lordes
https://studybible.info/KJV/Revelation 19

1599 Geneva Bible:
And I saw heaven open, and behold a white horse, and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and he judgeth and fighteth righteously.And his eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns: and he had a name written, that no man knew but himself.And he was clothed with a garment dipped in blood, and his name is called, THE WORD OF GOD.And the hosts which were in heaven, followed him upon white horses, clothed with fine linen white and pure.And out of his mouth went out a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the heathen: for he shall rule them with a rod of iron, for he it is that treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.And he hath upon his garment, and upon his thigh, a name written, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. - Revelation 19:11-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:11-16&version=GNV

Apple7 said:
God is NOT 'A' Spirit, pops.

The indefinite article does NOT exist in Greek.
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Keypurr thinks the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic, and was then translated into Greek.
 
P

popsthebuilder

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Apple7 said:
God is NOT 'A' Spirit, pops.

The indefinite article does NOT exist in Greek.
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God the Spirit must be worshipped as such and in spirit/inner being.

3db927098064afcc17c57d925ef2d441.jpg


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keypurr

keypurr

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Apple7 said:
Talk to scripture pops...
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Jesus was anointed with the logos (power). The logos, spirit son, was given the fullness of his creator Father. He is a godlike spirit. A created FORM of the most high. The logos is NOT the Holy Spirit.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He became flesh in the BODY provided for him/it.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Mat_3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mar_1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Luk_3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Joh_1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Notice that the SPIRIT came as a dove and landed on him. Luke uses the term Holy Ghost but that does not seem to match other verses.
 
keypurr

keypurr

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Apple7 said:
God is NOT 'A' Spirit, pops.

The indefinite article does NOT exist in Greek.
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Take it up with the translators friend.

John 4:24
(Bishops) God is a spirite, and they that worshippe hym, must worshippe hym in spirite, and in the trueth.
(ESV) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
(ESV+) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
(Geneva) God is a Spirite, and they that worship him, must worship him in spirit and trueth.
(GNB) God is Spirit, and only by the power of his Spirit can people worship him as he really is."
(ISV) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
(KJV) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(Murdock) For God is a Spirit; and they that worship him, should worship in spirit and in truth.
(NAS77) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NASB) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NASB+) "GodG2316 is N1spiritG4151, and thoseG3588 who worshipG4352 Him mustG1163 worshipG4352 R1in spiritG4151 and truthG225."
(NIrV) "God is spirit. His worshipers must worship him in spirit and in truth."
(NIV) God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."
(NKJV) God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NRSV) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NRSVA) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
(YLT) God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'

I believe that God is A Spirit for he is a person. And I also think his express image Son is also a spirit. I believe that son (logos) dwelled in Jesus who was the body prepared for him/it. This is how the logos became flesh.
 
JudgeRightly

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keypurr said:
Was not all the power of the logos given to Jesus the MAN? Acts 10:38.
Jesus said ALL power was given to him BY HIS FATHER.
Yet he tells us that only his Father is the true God. So he was just a man who could die on a stake to save the world, the perfect Lamb of God.

You need to think also.
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Again, are you saying that Jesus, being ONLY A MAN, could ransom His life for others, and not just Himself, which goes AGAINST this passage:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

In order to say that Jesus was ONLY a man, Keypurr, you have to deny the above passage.

Yet my position fits this verse just fine, in that Jesus was BOTH all God AND all Man, that His human nature was the correct type of sacrifice needed to pay for sin, and his God nature had more than enough value to pay for all sin of all people.

You, Keypurr, deny scripture to defend your position, which shows how blinded you are by your own traditions, forget the traditions of the church.

You've turned the truth of God into a lie, Keypurr. You need to repent.
 
JudgeRightly

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keypurr said:
Yep. I think I do. The Aramaic is quite popular in the Eastern Churches. But I admit I an not an expert n the subject.
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And yet, the language of the scholars at the time was.... Wait for it.... GREEK!

KOINE Greek, to be exact.
 
keypurr

keypurr

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JudgeRightly said:
Saying it doesn't make it so, and refusing to engage my argument only shows that either you don't have an answer to my argument, in which you should be able to humble yourself and admit such, or you're a coward. Either make your argument against the points I present, or leave the thread if you don't want to discuss.
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You have been answered JR but you refuse to see it.

So what? Elsewhere in those same Bibles they use pronouns like "He" and "Him" and "Himself" when referring to the Word of God...
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I proved my point that the word "IT" was used in the early English Bibles.

Such as Revelation 19:11-16:

Bishop's Bible:
11 And I sawe heauen open, & beholde a white horse, and he that sate vpon him was called faythfull and true, and in ryghteousnesse he doth iudge and make battayle 12 His eyes were as a flambe of fire, and on his head were many crownes, and he had a name written, that no man knewe but he hym selfe 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipt in blood, and his name is called the worde of God 14 And the warryers which were in heauen folowed hym vppon whyte horses, clothed with whyte and pure raynes15 And out of his mouth went a sharpe sworde, that with it he shoulde smyte the heathen: and he shall rule the with a rodde of yron. And he trode the winefat of fiercenesse and wrath of almightie God 16 And hath on his vesture and on his thygh a name written, King of kinges, and Lorde of lordes
https://studybible.info/KJV/Revelation 19

1599 Geneva Bible:
And I saw heaven open, and behold a white horse, and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and he judgeth and fighteth righteously.And his eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns: and he had a name written, that no man knew but himself.And he was clothed with a garment dipped in blood, and his name is called, THE WORD OF GOD.And the hosts which were in heaven, followed him upon white horses, clothed with fine linen white and pure.And out of his mouth went out a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the heathen: for he shall rule them with a rod of iron, for he it is that treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.And he hath upon his garment, and upon his thigh, a name written, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. - Revelation 19:11-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:11-16&version=GNV



Keypurr thinks the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic, and was then translated into Greek.
Click to expand...
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
Again, are you saying that Jesus, being ONLY A MAN, could ransom His life for others, and not just Himself, which goes AGAINST this passage:

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him—For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever—That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit. . . . But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:7-9,15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm49:7-9,15&version=NKJV

In order to say that Jesus was ONLY a man, Keypurr, you have to deny the above passage.

Yet my position fits this verse just fine, in that Jesus was BOTH all God AND all Man, that His human nature was the correct type of sacrifice needed to pay for sin, and his God nature had more than enough value to pay for all sin of all people.

You, Keypurr, deny scripture to defend your position, which shows how blinded you are by your own traditions, forget the traditions of the church.

You've turned the truth of God into a lie, Keypurr. You need to repent.
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Oh JR, your so blind. The Lamb of God had to be a sinless MAN. How many men or women are sinless in scripture. God can not die. God could not send himself for he can not be the sacrifice for mankind.

The logos was IN Jesus. The logos is a created FORM of God, not God but "a" god. Firstborn of all creation/creatures. God created all through his spirit son the logos.

Your in your own prison JR, you can not see outside the church walls to find the light.
 
Apple7

Apple7

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popsthebuilder said:
God the Spirit must be worshipped as such and in spirit/inner being.

3db927098064afcc17c57d925ef2d441.jpg


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John 4.24 is a great passage for those that ascribe to 'Father Only Worship', as it boldly declares that God The Holy Spirit is to be worshiped as true worship.
 
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