Apple7
New member
pops,
Acts 10.38 is in the context of Jesus' TRIUNE baptism in which The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit were present.
The Son was NOT given anything...the word used here is 'anointed'.
Learn what that means...
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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pops,
Acts 10.38 is in the context of Jesus' TRIUNE baptism in which The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit were present.
The Son was NOT given anything...the word used here is 'anointed'.
Learn what that means...
Greetings again Apple7,
John 10:34-35 (KJV): 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
It was the Judges, not the Trinity that had to decide correctly using the word of God as their guide in these judicial decisions.
What is disappointing in these forums is that we do not seem to be able to agree with something fairly basic, recognised by many commentators, even most of them Trinitarians. We seem to get stuck on your imposing the Trinity on nearly every incident. The subject is much wider than you allow in normal discussion.
The whole of Psalm 82 needs to be considered and a proper understanding of Psalm 82 in relation to the Judges has a strong bearing on the circumstances of John 10:30-36. The Sanhedrin had tried to arrest Jesus, and now some of them were charging him with blasphemy. Jesus was using Psalm 82:6 to show his own position as God's representative, the Son of God. But it was cutting both ways, because he was also showing that they were the unjust judges and this must have been a major reason why they were further angry with him and sought to stone him. Jesus knew their hearts and they could not answer, similar to when they stoned Stephen. They were playing the part of the unjust judges of Psalm 82:2 and they would soon crucify the Son of God. But God the Father the Judge of the whole earth would vindicate His Son by raising him from the dead and appoint him to be the future Ruler and Judge over the earth. He is a man, the Son of Man of Psalm 8:4, not the second person of the Trinity.
Acts 17:30-31 (KJV): 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Jesus will fulfil the role mentioned in the following, He will be the new Elohim to replace the unjust Judges.
Psalm 82:6-8 (KJV): 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God (Elohim), judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Kind regards
Trevor
You are trying to hide behind your Hebrew, but Elohim is in both passages. No, I do not transport a word or phrase out of one context and plant it into another context. That seems to be your favourite method. The context of Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8-9 is concerning the children of Israel having to come to the Tabernacle or the judiciary, and this can be considered to come before God’s representatives, the judges. Jesus calls these judges “Elohim” because unto them the word of God came.
John 10:34-35 (KJV): 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
It was the Judges, not the Trinity that had to decide correctly using the word of God as their guide in these judicial decisions.
What is disappointing in these forums is that we do not seem to be able to agree with something fairly basic, recognised by many commentators, even most of them Trinitarians. We seem to get stuck on your imposing the Trinity on nearly every incident. The subject is much wider than you allow in normal discussion.
The whole of Psalm 82 needs to be considered and a proper understanding of Psalm 82 in relation to the Judges has a strong bearing on the circumstances of John 10:30-36. The Sanhedrin had tried to arrest Jesus, and now some of them were charging him with blasphemy. Jesus was using Psalm 82:6 to show his own position as God's representative, the Son of God. But it was cutting both ways, because he was also showing that they were the unjust judges and this must have been a major reason why they were further angry with him and sought to stone him. Jesus knew their hearts and they could not answer, similar to when they stoned Stephen. They were playing the part of the unjust judges of Psalm 82:2 and they would soon crucify the Son of God. But God the Father the Judge of the whole earth would vindicate His Son by raising him from the dead and appoint him to be the future Ruler and Judge over the earth. He is a man, the Son of Man of Psalm 8:4, not the second person of the Trinity.
Acts 17:30-31 (KJV): 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Jesus will fulfil the role mentioned in the following, He will be the new Elohim to replace the unjust Judges.
Psalm 82:6-8 (KJV): 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God (Elohim), judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Kind regards
Trevor
Apple7
New member
No, Trev....
'Haelohim' is in both passages.
Ask your Hebrew-cognizant friends if you are in doubt...
Actually, you do.
Over half of the English translations render 'haelohim' as God, in these two pet-passage-polemics from your cult.
Show us your very own exegesis on the Hebrew, Trev...:rotfl:
Then start defending the scriptures yourself, Trev!
Stop googling your replies, and using the unreferenced replies of your cult-buddies.
We've already clinic-ed you on Psalm 82.
Got any NEW material...?
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
1Th 5:21KJV
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
1Th 5:21KJV
keypurr
Well-known member
We disagree Apple7. Jesus was anointed with the logos AND the Holy Spirit.
The logos is the express image spirit son of the Father, his first creation.
God created all things through his first creation.
The logos BECAME flesh in the body prepared for IT.
keypurr
Well-known member
I DO, and I find the errors our church Fathers made. I see most churches today as pagan.
Greetings again Apple7,
John 10:36 (KJV): Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
He has just mentioned that the word of God had come to the judges. This prompts the thought concerning others who received the word of God, the prophets. Consider the sanctification and call of Isaiah which resulted in his being sent. This is a parallel or the framework for the expression in John 10:36 because Jesus the Son of God was sanctified and sent. The message that Isaiah was commissioned to preach was more applicable to the preaching of Jesus than Isaiah, as it is quoted regarding Jesus on two different times in his life Matthew 13:13-15 and John 12:39-41.
Kind regards
Trevor
The ‘ha’ portion simply means ‘the’ if I am reading my reference books correctly. Thus they were to come before the God or the Judges. I suggest it means the Judges who represented God, those to whom “the word of God came” John 10:34-35.
I have attempted to use NT expositions of some of these OT passages. You may disagree with my understanding of the judges but you have not answered Psalm 8:5 quoted in Hebrews 2:7 as “angels”. Here your only defence was you tried to avoid the obvious by transporting a word or phrase out of another context.
Actually my present understanding of John 10:30-36 and the judges was a gradual process. I was invited to a SDA seminar on Daniel. I attended a number of their sessions, was a bit out of place on Daniel 2 because of my belief in the 1000 years upon the earth Daniel 2:35,44 rather than their heaven going. But one evening when many were away they decided to have the seminar on the Trinity. One of the key verses was John 10:30, and a murmur of consent was that this verse was a mainstay of the Trinity. I disagreed saying that I believe that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is the Son of God, but I could not substantiate my belief from Jesus’ answers in John 10:32-36. What I have presented concerning the judges was developed by my own research and involvement in another forum over many years, not even referencing any of my fellowships’ literature.
Then we have different views on Psalm 82.
A few introductory comments on the next phrase in Jesus’ answer:
John 10:36 (KJV): Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
He has just mentioned that the word of God had come to the judges. This prompts the thought concerning others who received the word of God, the prophets. Consider the sanctification and call of Isaiah which resulted in his being sent. This is a parallel or the framework for the expression in John 10:36 because Jesus the Son of God was sanctified and sent. The message that Isaiah was commissioned to preach was more applicable to the preaching of Jesus than Isaiah, as it is quoted regarding Jesus on two different times in his life Matthew 13:13-15 and John 12:39-41.
Kind regards
Trevor
glorydaz
Well-known member
God is not an IT. That's the talk of cults.
The Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word (Logos) was God. You can't escape John 1:1.
So, calling God an it is a horrible thing to do. :nono:
And, what's their opinion about you? :think:
popsthebuilder
New member
Calling GOD a person or three is horrible thing to do.
It is expressly spoken against in the Bible.
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"A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility."
-wikipedia
Pretty sure God qualifies as three Persons, not just one Person, and CERTAINLY NOT an "It."
popsthebuilder
New member
GOD is not creation which any number or persons is.
The word "person" limits GOD.
the word "IT" does not.
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God's Truth
New member
God is a 'He' and He made Adam in His image.
God's Truth
New member
George Affleck,
Are you going to discuss with me further about you saying the Father and Son share the Spirit?
It sounds like you are going to come to see that they are the same since they have the same Spirit.
Are you going to discuss with me further about you saying the Father and Son share the Spirit?
It sounds like you are going to come to see that they are the same since they have the same Spirit.
Which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that God is three PERSONS, per the definition I provided above. Please pay attention.
Sure, humans are persons made in the image of God. But "personhood" (the quality of being a person) comes from God Himself, who is THREE PERSONS.
I didn't say "person". I said "Persons", plural, capitalized.
God made man in His image and likeness. That includes the quality of being a person.
That's why it's wrong for someone to kill an innocent person, but not wrong to kill an animal. Because God is (three) Person(s), therefore since man was created in His image/likeness it is wrong to kill that image/likeness unjustly.
The word "IT" defines a neuter. In the Bible, God uses masculine terms when referring to Himself. Ergo, God is not an "It". God is a "He".
Calling God something He is not is considered blasphemy.
Calling God an "It" falls into that category.
popsthebuilder
New member
Your entire post is nothing but faulty conjecture based on the doctrines of men.
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keypurr
Well-known member
The LOGOS was called an "IT" in the early translations.
The LOGOS is not God, it is his Spirit Son who is a CREATION.
If you want truth you must seek it. You do not have it glorydaz.
keypurr
Well-known member
Wrong again friend, the word "God" is a position, like King, both the Bishops and Geneva Bible call the LOGOS an IT.
Bishops
Joh 1:3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made.
Joh 1:4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
Geneva
Joh 1:3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
Joh 1:4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
keypurr
Well-known member
God is a SPIRIT but we call him "He" so we can relate to him.