Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[God's Truth]

Scripture?

Before God created anything:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Earthly body:

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[popsthebuilder]

No scriptural verb ever describes Jesus as being 'created'.

We have already been over this with you, pops...

Begotten......oh wait.....lol

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[JudgeRightly]

Are you saying Hebrews is wrong?

Nope. Hebrews is correct.

I'm saying your eisegesis of Hebrews is incorrect.

Or are you not understanding the culture?

KEYPURR:

Do you reject Psalm 49:7-9,15?

I did not miss it JR.

Why not use your own words instead of using biblegateway which is just someone elses opinion.

No, Keypurr, It's not "someone elses (sic) opinion." It's called an online Bible.

What's your point, Keypurr?

If you doubt the veracity of said online Bible, then follow the link that is provided and compare what the website shows the passage to say to any number of other sites or physical copies of the same version to confirm what is said is accurate.

If you can't understand why I would use a tool which allows me to store an entire Bible on my phone and quote it easily and directly into a Bible based forum, that's your problem, not mine. Deal with it. Calling BG "someone elses (sic) opinion" is not only defamation but also poisoning the well.

Why should I have to spend countless minutes transcribing what is said in a physical copy of the Bible onto my phone when all I have to do is select the verses I want to share in a Bible app, press a button, and then paste the text into a text box?

 

[Apple7]

Heb 1:3 EXPRESS IMAGE

Name any Image that is not created.

Got any NEW material, pops?

You've been peddling your same unreasoned scriptures for the past ten years.


ος ων απαυγασμα της δοξης και χαρακτηρ της υποστασεως αυτου φερων τε τα παντα τω ρηματι της δυναμεως αυτου καθαρισμον των αμαρτιων ποιησαμενος εκαθισεν εν δεξια της μεγαλωσυνης εν υψηλοις

hos ōn apaugasma tēs doxes kai charaktēr tēs hypostaseōs autou pherōn te ta panta tō rhēmati tēs dynameōs di' autou katharismon tōn hamartiōn poiēsamenos ekathisen en dexia tēs megalōsynēs en hypsēlois

Who being radiance of Glory, and the express image of His essence, upholding all things by the Word of power, having made purification of our sins through Himself, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high, (Heb 1.3)

What you deceitfully attempt to do is to reverse-translate Heb 1.3 and use the term 'image' as imparting the same meaning as used by a completely different word, in completely different scripture.

What you failed to realize, because you don't know how to exegete, and you never ever bother to look, is that Heb 1.3 uses a completely different word than used ANYWHERE else in the entire NT.

Thus...if you were cognizant, then you would have known that this Greek word does NOT impart the same meaning as 'image' elsewhere in scripture.

 

[popsthebuilder]

There's this thing called context...

αλλα ερχεται ωρα και νυν εστιν οτε οι αληθινοι προσκυνηται προσκυνησουσιν τω πατρι εν πνευματι και αληθεια και γαρ ο πατηρ τοιουτους ζητει τους προσκυνουντας αυτον πνευμα ο θεος και τους προσκυνουντας αυτον εν πνευματι και αληθεια δει προσκυνειν

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is Spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in Spirit and Truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

•Father
•Son (Truth)
•Spirit

That isn't what it says.....and you imply that GOD changes.

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[Apple7]

Begotten......oh wait.....lol

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Being born does not impart being 'created'.

 

[Apple7]

That isn't what it says.....and you imply that GOD changes.

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What part is escaping you...?

 

[JudgeRightly]

That isn't what it says.....and you imply that GOD changes.

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So? God DOES change. The incarnation is proof of that.

 

[Apple7]

Before God created anything:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Earthly body:

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως


Col 1.15 expresses subordination. The genitive substantive specifies that which is subordinated to, or under, the dominion of the head substantive. In this case, the creation is subordinate to Jesus.

Adding context, (Col 1.9 – 20), clearly and irrefutably demonstrates Jesus’ deity.

Further, Col 1.15 – 20 is a hymn…and, as we all know, hymns are sung to deity, not mortals.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Got any NEW material, pops?

You've been peddling your same unreasoned scriptures for the past ten years.


ος ων απαυγασμα της δοξης και χαρακτηρ της υποστασεως αυτου φερων τε τα παντα τω ρηματι της δυναμεως αυτου καθαρισμον των αμαρτιων ποιησαμενος εκαθισεν εν δεξια της μεγαλωσυνης εν υψηλοις

hos ōn apaugasma tēs doxes kai charaktēr tēs hypostaseōs autou pherōn te ta panta tō rhēmati tēs dynameōs di' autou katharismon tōn hamartiōn poiēsamenos ekathisen en dexia tēs megalōsynēs en hypsēlois

Who being radiance of Glory, and the express image of His essence, upholding all things by the Word of power, having made purification of our sins through Himself, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high, (Heb 1.3)

What you deceitfully attempt to do is to reverse-translate Heb 1.3 and use the term 'image' as imparting the same meaning as used by a completely different word, in completely different scripture.

What you failed to realize, because you don't know how to exegete, and you never ever bother to look, is that Heb 1.3 uses a completely different word than used ANYWHERE else in the entire NT.

Thus...if you were cognizant, then you would have known that this Greek word does NOT impart the same meaning as 'image' elsewhere in scripture.

It points to GOD all the way. If a thing is "of" something then it isn't the whole or initial state of the whole of the original. "Of" denotes a part/ peice or start.


The actual word "of" isn't in the Greek, but it is implied throughout the verses.

All glory belongs to GOD; the eternal Spirit.

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[Apple7]

It points to GOD Al the way. If a thing is "of" something then it isn't the whole or initial state of the whole of the original. "Of" denotes a part/ peice or start.


The actual word "of" isn't in the Greek, but it is implied throughout the verses.

All glory belongs to GOD; the eternal Spirit.

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That nasty thing called CONTEXT keeps rearing its head...

Heb 1.1

πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω

POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais

By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;


The Book of Hebrews is aptly named for the OT material of which it contains.

Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).

These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’

A clear signal of the ONE Triune Creator God of the Universe.

 

[God's Truth]

Being born does not impart being 'created'.

Of course it does.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Being born does not impart being 'created'.

You ant I both know that word begotten is an addition; and yes; name 1 thing that is born without having a start please

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[popsthebuilder]

What part is escaping you...?

Oh; I forget that you think GOD is with change as opposed to man who was given with the gift of freedom and ability to repent. GOD turning from what HE showed would happen due to the repentance of man is not actually GOD changing. To posit that it is is to go even further down the hole and assume that GOD is not all knowing.

Not the best footing friend.

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[popsthebuilder]

So? God DOES change. The incarnation is proof of that.

Nope; that is proof that the Word of GOD/ SPIRIT filled the emptied Christ. GOD didn't have to change to have the capacity for such; aspecially seeing as how it was foretold since before the written word.

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[popsthebuilder]

ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως


Col 1.15 expresses subordination. The genitive substantive specifies that which is subordinated to, or under, the dominion of the head substantive. In this case, the creation is subordinate to Jesus.

Adding context, (Col 1.9 – 20), clearly and irrefutably demonstrates Jesus’ deity.

Further, Col 1.15 – 20 is a hymn…and, as we all know, hymns are sung to deity, not mortals.

Do we not also see subordinate nature in verses telling us GOD is the head of Christ and Christ is the head of the body of faithful believers?



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[popsthebuilder]

That nasty thing called CONTEXT keeps rearing its head...

Heb 1.1

πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω

POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais

By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;


The Book of Hebrews is aptly named for the OT material of which it contains.

Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).

These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’

A clear signal of the ONE Triune Creator God of the Universe.

Nonsense.

Context in no way refutes my point; unless you think we are literally in past times now.

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[popsthebuilder]

All the same Spirit friend.

No sense in calling the One Spirit three people or persons as the Spirit is causal of all persons and existence and too HIS Word and manifestations

There's this thing called context...

αλλα ερχεται ωρα και νυν εστιν οτε οι αληθινοι προσκυνηται προσκυνησουσιν τω πατρι εν πνευματι και αληθεια και γαρ ο πατηρ τοιουτους ζητει τους προσκυνουντας αυτον πνευμα ο θεος και τους προσκυνουντας αυτον εν πνευματι και αληθεια δει προσκυνειν

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is Spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in Spirit and Truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

•Father
•Son (Truth)
•Spirit

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[God's Truth]

ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως


Col 1.15 expresses subordination. The genitive substantive specifies that which is subordinated to, or under, the dominion of the head substantive. In this case, the creation is subordinate to Jesus.

Adding context, (Col 1.9 – 20), clearly and irrefutably demonstrates Jesus’ deity.

Further, Col 1.15 – 20 is a hymn…and, as we all know, hymns are sung to deity, not mortals.

No; the scripture plainly says that Jesus is the first born over all creation AND THEN EVERYTHING was created THROUGH him.

You don't even make sense. Who said anything about a hymn being sung to a mortal?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Good point.

No one is saying Jesus Christ was a mere mortal by saying there is a subsidiary nature shown in scripture.

No; the scripture plainly says that Jesus is the first born over all creation AND THEN EVERYTHING was created THROUGH him.

You don't even make sense. Who said anything about a hymn being sung to a mortal?

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