Believing: Is it done BEFORE or AFTER one is in Christ?

[musterion]

Repentance is change of mind for that which is good. Instead of doing evil, do good.

You just made repentance a work.

 

[glorydaz]

Apply that to believing, and let's see if you did not do a thing.

I'll wait miss ninny.

Or you can run away and hide. Your choice.

Once I was blind, but now I see. You explain it as your deciding not to be blind anymore? Your deciding to believe? That's not what happened to me.

 

[Samie]

So someone can be in sin and in Christ at the same time.

No, the sin people now commit are AUTOMATICALLY forgiven, by justifying us because Jesus was resurrected for our justification (Rom 4:25).

 

[musterion]

No, the sin people now commit are AUTOMATICALLY forgiven, by justifying us because Jesus was resurrected for our justification (Rom 4:25).

So all people are already justified, whether they believe the Gospel or not?

 

[Samie]

No it isn't. If it is, then Paul contradicted himself when he said salvation is through believing the Gospel, and that salvation is NOT of works.

You misunderstood what Paul wrote.

To be saved is to be in Christ. After one is in Christ he can then believe. Not the other way around.

 

[musterion]

You misunderstood what Paul wrote.

No I haven't. I just quoted him to you.

To be saved is to be in Christ. After one is in Christ he can then believe. Not the other way around.

But you said ALL are BORN into Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

So you're admitting the smallness of your person by calling me a ninny?

No, I called you a ninny because you sound like a ninny.

And because your position jibes with Jerry, you want to act as the judge and then decide who wins or loss in our discussion?

Jerry doesn't need any back up from me. I entered the discussion because I disagree with your claims. That's usually the way it works here. You know....a discussion board.

Your glory dazz not amaze me, sister.

I'm not your sister.

 

[Samie]

So all people are already justified, whether they believe the Gospel or not?

People are BEING justified. When one commits sin, the sin committed having been forgiven on the cross is NOT imputed against him (2 Cor 5:18, 19).

But the act of sinning reminds him that he is not an overcomer yet. He must overcome evil with good. This is where repentance comes in. As per our Lord, repent or perish. And only overcomers will Christ not blot out from the book of life.

 

[Samie]

But you said ALL are BORN into Christ.

We are born already In Christ. Hence, we have the capability to do spiritual acts like believing, etc. We can do all things through Him, remember? Phil 4:13

 

[musterion]

People are BEING justified. When one commits sin, the sin committed having been forgiven on the cross is NOT imputed against him (2 Cor 5:18, 19).

But the act of sinning reminds him that he is not an overcomer yet. He must overcome evil with good. This is where repentance comes in. As per our Lord, repent or perish. And only overcomers will Christ not blot out from the book of life.

How does one get justified?

 

[glorydaz]

Well, well, well. She chose to run and hide.

Liar. Dreamer. Fool.

Your problem is you have a complex of some sort. FYI....people come and go on forums. They don't hang on your every word. :chuckle:

 

[Samie]

You just made repentance a work.

Yes, it is. It is doing good instead of doing evil.

 

[glorydaz]

She doesn't want to. And Jerry's left alone.

:mock: Samie

 

[musterion]

Yes, it is. It is doing good instead of doing evil.

Then if one must repent - (as you define it) stop doing bad and start doing good - to be saved, and if repentance is a work, then salvation is by works and Paul lied.

 

[musterion]

If you're right, Gal 3:26 is absolutely false.

 

[glorydaz]

No. Your logic is sour.

People are born already in Christ, hence born with the capability to believe or to disbelieve. It is their choice whether to believe or not. If they choose NOT to believe, is God to blame? No.

Just like Adam. He was created with the capability to choose. He chose to sin. Do you blame God because Adam sinned? With your sour logic, you will.

Are you saying every human being is born IN CHRIST at their physical birth?

 

[Samie]

Then if one must repent - (as you define it) stop doing bad and start doing good - to be saved,

We don't repent to be saved; we already are saved, being already in Christ PRIOR to repenting. We repent so we become overcomers of evil. And being overcomers, Christ will not blot out our names from the book of life.

 

[Samie]

Are you saying every human being is born IN CHRIST at their physical birth?

Yes, all descendants of Adam & Eve.

 

[glorydaz]

No.

Again, one cannot believe UNLESS he is in Christ Who said man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him.

People are born In Christ, because God implemented the plan of salvation He devised before the foundation of the world by saving Adam through Christ that same day he fell into sin, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world!. With Adam in Christ, all his descendants are born in Christ.

That gracious, saving act of God was manifested in the life, death, resurrection and heavenly ministry of our Savior and Lord. see 2 Tim 1:8-10.

Ah, so you don't seem to have any concept of the CROSS. You sorta lump together the "foundation of the world" and John 15 with the disciples and what the RISEN LORD taught Paul after the resurrection. It's no wonder you're confused.

 

[Samie]

Ah, so you don't seem to have any concept of the CROSS. You sorta lump together the "foundation of the world" and John 15 with the disciples and what the RISEN LORD taught Paul after the resurrection. It's no wonder you're confused.

NO.

The cross is the revelation or manifestation of what God did through Christ - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world - in His act of saving Adam that same day he fell into sin. see 2 Tim 1:8-10.