Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’

[Derf]

If the church were just the building, then you are right. But the church is not the building, it's the collective of it's members. From which he has been ostracized. So in fact, he has been kicked out of the church.

PureX is right--he was obviously kicked out of the Church (big C), or excommunicated. Just like Paul tells the church to do--treat unrepentant sinners as unbelievers. Unbelievers are welcome to attend church (little C) meetings/worship services, but they aren't part of the Church until they are baptized (required in almost every denomination).

The real question is, does/would Jesus ever kick anyone out? If He would, and He gave authority to the Church, why can't the Church do so? My post above illustrates that Jesus gave us a specific example of someone being kicked out of the Kingdom of Heaven, because of His "clothes". So all are invited in (good and evil in Matt 22:10), but not all can stay (Matt 22:11-13).

If the purpose of the Church is to prepare people for eternal life with Christ, and someone doesn't want to do what Christ says to do (like wear the proper "clothes"), for what purpose is the person wanting to attend church?

 

[Huckleberry]

The real question is, does/would Jesus ever kick anyone out?

He does. Every single individual who does not repent and allow Him into their hearts.

Moreover, in the end, He doesn't just "kick them out", He consigns them to hell.

 

[Derf]

Exactly! He kicks them out of the kingdom of Heaven!

 

[Huckleberry]

Exactly! He kicks them out of the kingdom of Heaven!

So you agree it's perfectly reasonable for a church to refuse membership to someone who's openly proclaimed they intend to pursue a homosexual lifestyle?

 

[PureX]

My post above illustrates that Jesus gave us a specific example of someone being kicked out of the Kingdom of Heaven, because of His "clothes". So all are invited in (good and evil in Matt 22:10), but not all can stay (Matt 22:11-13).

The problem with your theory, here, is that in the parable, it is God who assesses the hearts and souls of men, and rejects or accepts them. In the church, it's humans acting as if they were God, and assuming that they can read men's hearts and souls as God can. When they cannot.

If the purpose of the Church is to prepare people for eternal life with Christ, and someone doesn't want to do what Christ says to do (like wear the proper "clothes"), for what purpose is the person wanting to attend church?

The problem here is that different people have different ideas about what the proper "clothing" is. While only God actually knows.

 

[ok doser]

The problem with your theory, here, is that in the parable, it is God who assesses the hearts and souls of men, and rejects or accepts them. In the church, it's humans acting as if they were God, and assuming that they can read men's hearts and souls as God can. When they cannot.

gee, if only they had God's word to guide them

 

[kmoney]

If the church were just the building, then you are right. But the church is not the building, it's the collective of it's members. From which he has been ostracized. So in fact, he has been kicked out of the church.

Define ostracized. He can still attend, he's just not a 'member'. Whatever that means for that particular church.

What would you have the church do in a situation like this? He's publicly embracing a lifestyle that the church considers to be sinful.

 

[oatmeal]

Correct: which is why I am an Idolater of Christ, because of these very special words you wrote! :thumb: Amen!

I do not a clue what you just said, nor any idea what you intended to say.

 

[ok doser]

Define ostracized.

 

[PureX]

Define ostracized. He can still attend, he's just not a 'member'. Whatever that means for that particular church.

What would you have the church do in a situation like this? He's publicly embracing a lifestyle that the church considers to be sinful.

They could tell him that, and then mind their own sins.

 

[Angel4Truth]

They could tell him that, and then mind their own sins.

They did tell him that, in the letter they sent. Then also in it, they invited him to come and speak with them about it, and he declined, instead going to a gay newspaper to complain. (as if they could do something about it besides whine)

 

[PureX]

They did tell him that, in the letter they sent. Then also in it, they invited him to come and speak with them about it, and he declined, instead going to a gay newspaper to complain. (as if they could do something about it besides whine)

So what if he declined? So what if he went to a gay newspaper and complained? What does any of this have to do with showing him the spirit of Christ's love and forgiveness? Are you saying that if he doesn't comply with your requests, or if he complains to someone about them, he is undeserving of Christ's love and forgiveness?

Because I think you are saying that. And I think you're very wrong to believe it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

So what if he declined? So what if he went to a gay newspaper and complained? What does any of this have to do with showing him the spirit of Christ's love and forgiveness? Are you saying that if he doesn't comply with your requests, or if he complains to someone about them, he is undeserving of Christ's love and forgiveness?

So what if he knew the requirements of membership, he should be able to sin all he wants! And claim membership!

No one said he couldnt attend, only that he cannot now vote on issues in the church, head anything in the church, etc...

You seem to be unable to separate attendance and membership.

Because I think you are saying that. And I think you're very wrong to believe it.

If you fault me as being wrong for believing the word, then fault away.

 

[aikido7]

We are all members of the human race. And the human race is not perfect and will sin.

That goes along with the terms of "membership" in my opinion.

 

[Huckleberry]

We are all members of the human race. And the human race is not perfect and will sin.

That goes along with the terms of "membership" in my opinion.

I doubt many churches deny membership to sinners. :AMR:

As has been stated over and over again, this man publicly proclaimed he would embrace a lifestyle of sexual sin. He didn't merely proclaim he was a sinner. I doubt that claim would have so much as raised an eyebrow.

 

[Angel4Truth]

We are all members of the human race. And the human race is not perfect and will sin.

That goes along with the terms of "membership" in my opinion.

No, you do not get to dictate the membership terms of a church in which you do not belong and whose Savior you do not recognize.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4499579&postcount=17

 

[rougueone]

Probably yes, probably not. But we weren't there, so, can only speculate.



Not in a case such as this. I am in total agreement that this particular pastor, in this particular instance, was totally and completely correct when the member decided that he was going to live in a 'sexual' immoral way openly and in total disagreement with God.

Now, on the fact of seeking another congregation, which I have in the past, would I, lifeisgood, stay in a congregation where:
- american idol,
- angels leaving feathers behind, as if the Bible teaches that angels have feathers,
- you do not get healed because you do not have enough faith, as if your faith is God
- you are not rich because you do not confess enough or correctly, as if God has promised that His children will be materially rich in this world,
- etc., etc., etc.
is the bread of the day,
I, lifeisgood, will definitely seek another congregation, which I have done. (I have been in congregations where ALL or some or a combination of all of the above plus others have been the plate of the preaching. Can't stay in a congregation like that.)



It is a blessing to belong to a congregation where you can come and confess your sin and they will embrace you correct and help you with correcting it. Hard to find, but that congregation exist.

After many years of searching for a congregation without american idols, angel feathers, precious stones (but only for certain ones), etc., I have found a congregation where the pastor has stated 'there will be no hip hop in this church,' 'no angel feathers,' 'no get rich schemes,' in this congregation. In this congregation, we will have only Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary' as our only hope. I am happy because it is only 45 minutes from my house. I'm willing to travel 45 minutes from my house to get sound doctrine.

I, lifeisgood, am distraught that for the past various years, all the congregations I have visited, all I get is 'angel feathers,' 'get rich quick schemes,' don't bring your Bible here (oh, yeah, heard that one too), 'you're sick because you do not have enough faith', etc.

If you are gathering in a congregation that preaches the True Gospel of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, you are blessed indeed, my brother. Many of us are struggling to find a 'true' congregation without all this nonsense in our areas and I pray that the Lord will place such a congregation in the path of those seeking for such.

Thank You LIG,
I am so blessed. Yes the church is teaching the Gospel, but also living the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. Not perfect. Because only Jesus was perfect. But as you, I have bounced around from church to church.

Something I need to mention. A severe fault I had was looking to sharply at the church. I am realizing, to look as myself sharply and to bring Gods love to others and to my church. Not so much what I can gain. What can I bring to what God is already doing .

 

[aikido7]

When churches kick out people with a "sinful lifestyle," then those with sinful lifestyles will never go to church.

 

[PureX]

Define ostracized. He can still attend, he's just not a 'member'. Whatever that means for that particular church.

What would you have the church do in a situation like this? He's publicly embracing a lifestyle that the church considers to be sinful.

The church could be wrong, even though that idea never seems to occur to any of them. Instead, they just assume their interpretation and idolization of scripture is absolutely divine and righteous, and that they can therefor judge and condemn and punish others with impunity. Their victims see this unquestioned self-righteousness, passing itself off as Christlike behavior, and are rightfully repelled by it. Not because they "want to sin" (if they wanted to sin, they wouldn't be going to any church that believes in sin), but because such unquestioned self-righteousness is simply repulsive to others.

What is most likely to have happened in this instance, is that a man who wants to be believe in Christ, and to be a member of Christ's church, but does not accept the particular religious dogma and bias against homosexuality came to this church, and made the mistake of saying so. And he was then "punished" for not accepting the church's unquestioned position on homosexuality by being ostracized (shunned).

All in all the whole incident seems to be a reflection of ignorance and egotism rather than Christ's divine love and forgiveness, kindness and generosity. And that's a shame, because it just confirms the negative ideas many people hold about Christianity.

 

[bybee]

The church could be wrong, even though that idea never seems to occur to any of them. Instead, they just assume their interpretation and idolization of scripture is absolutely divine and righteous, and that they can therefor judge and condemn and punish others with impunity. Their victims see this unquestioned self-righteousness, passing itself off as Christlike behavior, and are rightfully repelled by it. Not because they "want to sin" (if they wanted to sin, they wouldn't be going to any church that believes in sin), but because such unquestioned self-righteousness is simply repulsive to others.

What is most likely to have happened in this instance, is that a man who wants to be believe in Christ, and to be a member of Christ's church, but does not accept the particular religious dogma and bias against homosexuality came to this church, and made the mistake of saying so. And he was then "punished" for not accepting the church's unquestioned position on homosexuality by being ostracized (shunned).

All in all the whole incident seems to be a reflection of ignorance and egotism rather than Christ's divine love and forgiveness, kindness and generosity. And that's a shame, because it just confirms the negative ideas many people hold about Christianity.

Any group defines itself. A group sets its own criteria for belonging. A group decides its own rubrics for participation. If one wishes to belong and participate then one conforms to the rubrics.
If one is of another mind or persuasion then one finds another group or starts another group.
However, I believe that God's love for us is bigger than our comprehension. It is available to all of us right where we are. I only fit in a few places. They are the places I like to be.
I don't go where I'm not wanted. Not everyone feels as I do ... and that's okay.