Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’

[ok doser]

he's just pushing his silly old trope again, that perverts are the same as blacks

 

[kmoney]

The church could be wrong, even though that idea never seems to occur to any of them. Instead, they just assume their interpretation and idolization of scripture is absolutely divine and righteous, and that they can therefor judge and condemn and punish others with impunity. Their victims see this unquestioned self-righteousness, passing itself off as Christlike behavior, and are rightfully repelled by it. Not because they "want to sin" (if they wanted to sin, they wouldn't be going to any church that believes in sin), but because such unquestioned self-righteousness is simply repulsive to others.

What is most likely to have happened in this instance, is that a man who wants to be believe in Christ, and to be a member of Christ's church, but does not accept the particular religious dogma and bias against homosexuality came to this church, and made the mistake of saying so. And he was then "punished" for not accepting the church's unquestioned position on homosexuality by being ostracized (shunned).

All in all the whole incident seems to be a reflection of ignorance and egotism rather than Christ's divine love and forgiveness, kindness and generosity. And that's a shame, because it just confirms the negative ideas many people hold about Christianity.

You keep bringing up Jesus and his love and forgiveness. Do you think Jesus cares nothing about what you do?

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

It doesn't say 'go and sin no more, or keep sinning if you want to'.

If that woman had started to follow Jesus but kept in that sin, do you think Jesus would have been hunky dory with it? :idunno:


Yes, it's possible that church is wrong about homosexuality. But churches have a set of beliefs. Membership will be (in most cases I imagine) dependent on that. I'm not sure why that's so difficult.


"punish with impunity". You make it sound so dramatic. :shocked: Is that even to be considered a 'punishment' at all? A sign of disapproval sure, but punishment? :idunno: What does being a member really mean in this church?

 

[TracerBullet]

he's just pushing his silly old trope again, that perverts are the same as blacks

Even if that was the case you are incapable of countering the point outside of hurling insults

That said is ti sad that you are still trying to spread the lie that being a member of a minority is somehow comparable to abusing children.

 

[TracerBullet]

Is he being forced into that Church?

That doesn't really connect with anything being said. We are told how generous this church is in that they are "willing to accept him in their presence" But this is not true, there is no acceptance just disdain just like having to sit in the back of the bus or use a separate drinking fountain wasn't acceptance.

 

[bybee]

That doesn't really connect with anything being said. We are told how generous this church is in that they are "willing to accept him in their presence" But this is not true, there is no acceptance just disdain just like having to sit in the back of the bus or use a separate drinking fountain wasn't acceptance.

A Church is not a public space. It has rules. One agrees to follow the rules when one joins a Church. If the rules are unacceptable one ought not join.

 

[TracerBullet]

A Church is not a public space. It has rules. One agrees to follow the rules when one joins a Church. If the rules are unacceptable one ought not join.

that doesn't really address the point

 

[Huckleberry]

We are told how generous this church is in that they are "willing to accept him in their presence" But this is not true, there is no acceptance just disdain just like having to sit in the back of the bus or use a separate drinking fountain wasn't acceptance.

Where are you getting your insights into the atmosphere of this church? Do you go there? Have you been there? Is this based on anything at all?

that doesn't really address the point

Probably because you're actually trying to equate refusing membership, without refusing attendance and participation, with legally recognized racial discrimination.

I'm sure that if you found someone who was actually forced, by law, to give up their seat to someone else or drink at a separate water fountain, based entirely on their race...that person would surely find your assertion ridiculous.

 

[PureX]

You keep bringing up Jesus and his love and forgiveness. Do you think Jesus cares nothing about what you do?

I think Jesus cares why we do what we do. "Sin" is the state of heart and mind that motivates us to hurt ourselves and each other. I think too many Christians like to focus on sinful "acts", so they can avoid facing the real sin, which is what motivates the act, and thereby avoid focusing on their own motivations.

Yes, it's possible that church is wrong about homosexuality. But churches have a set of beliefs. Membership will be (in most cases I imagine) dependent on that. I'm not sure why that's so difficult.

I'm simply pointing out that these "churches" are not expressions of Christ. They expressions of their own narrow political and religious bias. There is no reason that people have to gather together under a mutually adhered to dogma. They could gather together for the purpose of sharing love, and forgiveness, and to express kindness and generosity to each other, and to the community at large.

"punish with impunity". You make it sound so dramatic. Is that even to be considered a 'punishment' at all? A sign of disapproval sure, but punishment? What does being a member really mean in this church?

My point was that the church is being motivated by their desire to punish people who won't adhere to their particular religious dogma. And that's a sin. Because that's a desire to hurt someone else based on their own selfish and ego-centric desires. It's a sin they could have avoided if they could have humbly realized that their beliefs about homosexuality are just their beliefs, and are not direct mandates from the mind of God. But they were so full of their own presumed self-righteousness that this never occurred to them. And it probably never will.

Also, it does hurt people to shun them. We are a social species, and we all want to be accepted and appreciated by our fellow humans. And that's exactly why the church chose not to do it. They wanted to cause hurt. They wanted to "punish the sinner", as if they were gods, themselves.

 

[bybee]

I think Jesus cares why we do what we do. "Sin" is the state of heart and mind that motivates us to hurt ourselves and each other. I think too many Christians like to focus on sinful "acts", so they can avoid facing the real sin, which is what motivates the act, and thereby avoid focusing on their own motivations.
I'm simply pointing out that these "churches" are not expressions of Christ. They expressions of their own narrow political and religious bias. There is no reason that people have to gather together under a mutual adhered to dogma. They could gather together for the purpose of sharing love, and forgiveness, and to express kindness and generosity to each other, and to the community at large.
My point was that the church is being motivated by their desire to punish people who won't adhere to their articular religious dogma. And that's a sin. Because that's a desire to hurt someone else based on their own selfish and ego-centric desires. It's a sin they could have avoided if they could have humbly realized that their beliefs about homosexuality are just their beliefs, and are not direct reflections of the mind of God. But they were so full of their own presumed self-righteousness that this never occurred to them. And it probably never will.

Also, it does hurt people to shun them. We are a social species, and we all want to be appreciated by our fellow humans. And that's exactly why the church chose to do it. They wanted to cause hurt. They wanted to "punish the sinner", as if they were gods, themselves.

You are utterly and typically off sides here.

 

[ok doser]

...My point was that the church is being motivated by their desire to punish people ...

which is, as has been pointed out by many here, the very epitome of retardedness

 

[PureX]

You are utterly and typically off sides here.

Get back to me when you can articulate your objections, instead of just posting them.

 

[WizardofOz]

I see TracerBullet is comparing homosexuals to African Americans yet again :doh:

 

[ok doser]

I see TracerBullet is comparing homosexuals to African Americans yet again :doh:

of course


racist scumbag that he is



(psst - linkey don't work)

 

[Angel4Truth]

I see TracerBullet is comparing homosexuals to African Americans yet again :doh:

Thats because hes a racist bigot.

 

[genuineoriginal]

What does any of this have to do with showing him the spirit of Christ's love and forgiveness?

2 Peter 2:21-22 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire​

A man that acts like dog turning to his own vomit or acts like a sow wallowing in the mire is definitely not showing the spirit of Christ's love and forgiveness.

 

[genuineoriginal]

When churches kick out people with a "sinful lifestyle," then those with sinful lifestyles will never go to church.

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.
You must turn from your sinful lifestyle to continue to share in the fellowship of the church and in the kingdom to come.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That said is ti sad that you are still trying to spread the lie that being a member of a minority is somehow comparable to abusing children.

You are the one that keeps claiming that there is no difference between a person who is a sexual pervert and a person born with dark skin.

 

[PureX]

2 Peter 2:21-22 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire​

A man that acts like dog turning to his own vomit or acts like a sow wallowing in the mire is definitely not showing the spirit of Christ's love and forgiveness.

I have never seen nor heard of any man doing any such thing. Ever. So this scripture is pretty much useless, if it is to be taken literally. And if it is not to be taken literally, but is instead meant metaphorically, then we're going to have to make presumptions about what that metaphor is. In which case we could very likely presume wrongly, since the quote is coming from a culture thousands of years past and on the other side of the world.

You will ignore these inconvenient facts, I'm sure, because you already just assume your interpretation and understanding of the words is absolutely and unquestionably correct. And that you then have the right to abuse other people because you are so absolutely and unquestionably right.

Isn't this true?

But your thinking so doesn't make it so. And you don't really have that right, at all.

 

[ok doser]

....we're going to have to make presumptions about what that metaphor is ....

i can appreciate how difficult that would be for you, what with two thirds of your brain cells turned to mush


:idea: Hey!

i have an idea!

how about letting people who aren't retarded help you out?


for instance, maybe you could listen to what genuineoriginal is saying instead of being such a fool

 

[bybee]

I have never seen nor heard of any man doing any such thing. Ever. So this scripture is pretty much useless, if it is to be taken literally. And if it is not to be taken literally, but is instead meant metaphorically, then we're going to have to make presumptions about what that metaphor is. In which case we could very likely presume wrongly, since the quote is coming from a culture thousands of years past and on the other side of the world.

You will ignore these inconvenient facts, I'm sure, because you already just assume your interpretation and understanding of the words is absolutely and unquestionably correct. And that you then have the right to abuse other people because you are so absolutely and unquestionably right.

Isn't this true?

But your thinking so doesn't make it so. And you don't really have that right, at all.

And your presuming to know the mind of another and make abusive judgments doesn't make it so either.
Just who do you think you are?