Arkansas Church Kicks Out Young Gay Man For ‘Choosing A Sinful Lifestyle’

[ok doser]

because it is there in plain sight

as is your bigotry towards the poor poor oppressed minority of pedophiles

 

[TracerBullet]

which minority?

pedophiles?

pedophiles aren't a minority and neither are rapists but that has never stopped racists from trying to equate rapists to blacks.


Bybee: Here is a fine example of the same justifications of hate and discrimination used by racists and homophobes. And i didn't even go looking for it.

 

[ok doser]

pedophiles aren't a minority...

pedophiles are just as valid a minority as homosexuals


unless you're arguing that they're a majority?

 

[ok doser]

pedophiles are just as valid a minority as homosexuals


unless you're arguing that they're a majority?

as it turns out, pedophiles are more abundant than homos

About 4 percent of the population is believed to have pedophilic urges.

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT

 

[genuineoriginal]

Which person? Because it certainly appears to me that we all have a somewhat different idea of what "righteousness" is.

My idea of righteousness is based on what God had written into His laws.

Where does your idea of what "righteousness" come from, watching MTV perhaps?

The thing is, two thousand years ago, on the other side of the world, this may have been considered unrighteous behavior. But we are not living in those days, or in that place, or in that culture. So unless you can show some real good reason why we should be mimicking the biases and the righteousness presumptions of some two century old and long dead Jews, instead of determining what is righteous for ourselves, in this time and place and culture, then I don't see why I should take any of this seriously.

Two thousand years ago, on the other side of the world, Paul had to contend with the immorality of the Roman culture, which is virtually identical to the immorality of the current American culture.

Maybe you think that Paul was mistaken in telling the Christians to keep themselves clean from the immorality of the Roman culture of his day?

Otherwise, you have no valid reason for arguing that Christians should immerse themselves in the immorality of the current American culture.

It is clear from the Bible that Christians are not to be under the Law, but it is also clear that the Law was written as a standard of righteousness.

Romans 10:5 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.​

When you go about deciding what is righteous for yourself, and come to the conclusion that it is righteous to violate one of the commandments written in the Law, then there is a strong probability that what you think is righteousness is actually unrighteousness.

You need to come up with a better excuse for your support of unrighteousness than the standard that declares homosexuality is unrighteous is a two thousand years old standard.

the teachings of most of the Bible don't apply to me. I'm more interested the parts that illuminate the Christ ideal.

If you don't study the teachings of most of the Bible because you think they don't apply to you, then you will have no basis for determining which parts illuminate the Christ ideal.

Here is a hint: Jesus believed in keeping the Law.

Matthew 5:17-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

Also, God didn't write the Bible, and I am not going to make a false idol of it by pretending that He did. I don't need to pretend I own God's ideas in a book so I can then presume myself to be more righteous and knowledgeable about God than everyone else. And I'm certainly not going to allow you to use this foolish pretense to pass judgment on me, either.

Are you so foolish that you believe that God had no part in the writing of the Bible?
Maybe you think the words, "Thus saith the Lord," mean that God did not speak?

However, Jesus said this:

Matthew 4:4 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.​

Maybe you should pay more attention to the parts of the Bible that begin with, "Thus saith the Lord," so you will have a better idea of ideals that Christ based His life on.

 

[genuineoriginal]

repeating the lie that that being a member of a minority is somehow comparable to abusing children won't make it true

You keep repeating the lie that being born with dark skin is somehow comparable to being a sexual pervert.

No matter how often you repeat the lie, it will never be true.

 

[genuineoriginal]

pedophiles aren't a minority

and neither are homosexuals.
Both pedophiles and homosexuals are sexual perverts that have chosen to act on their sexual perversions.

So, why are you arguing about minority rights in a thread about how a church deals with a sexual pervert?

 

[TracerBullet]

pedophiles are just as valid a minority as homosexuals


unless you're arguing that they're a majority?

A minority is a culturally, ethnically, religious or racially distinct group that has a shared sense of collective identity and community that coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group with socially shared rules about who belongs and who does not.

Pedophiles fail to meet the base definition of a minority because they are not a culturally distinct group.

Culture encompass things such as common ancestry, appearance, mode of dress, style, shared history, shared values, language, dialect or idioms, symbols, traditions, and/or communities. This unique culture produces a collective identity and a sense of belonging to that minority. That identity is internal and derives from inside the individual. These are markers of culture. These markers are transmitted from generation to generation. When you self-identify with a minority and find its culture base you learn the markers.

Pedophiles don’t have any cultural trappings. Their individual identity is not derived from the group that is pedophiles. An individual who is a pedophile doesn’t see that as their primary identifier in life. Individuals who are pedophiles do not make use of a collective identity to frame themselves in relation to the rest of society. An individual pedophile has no emotional investment do not present themselves publically as a member of a collective identity. This is why there are no pedophile pride parades. Or pedophile cake toppers (whatever those are) Pedophiles don’t have a collective identity to express to others as a means of fitting into society.

Having worked with a good number of pedophiles I can also relate that pedophiles almost universally deny that they are pedophiles.

Being a part of a group is different from being a member of a minority. A group forms from people with an exterior feature or circumstance.

There is no writer’s culture but there are writers groups.

There is no dieter culture but there are dieting groups.

You can arbitrarily single out people with blue eyes and call them a group but they don’t constitute a minority because they do not have a culture or a collective identity.

Pedophiles are a group but they lack a culture and a collective identity meaning they aren’t a minority.

 

[TracerBullet]

You keep repeating the lie that being born with dark skin is somehow comparable to being a sexual pervert.

No matter how often you repeat the lie, it will never be true.

you not liking the truth doesn't make the truth go away.


We all get the fact that you think tossing around the word pervert and the like somehow makes you morally superior to racists. It doesn't and you aren't.

 

[genuineoriginal]

not liking the truth doesn't make the truth go away.

Yes, no matter how much you dislike the truth, it will not go away.
Homosexuals are homosexuals because they are sexual perverts.
That is the truth.

 

[6days]

We all get the fact that you think tossing around the word pervert and the like somehow makes you morally superior to racists. It doesn't and you aren't.

Perhaps we all use words like pervert to describe things we find offensive. Is a 55 year old who rapes a 9 year old a pervert? Perhaps we all have different levels between what is acceptable and what is perversion.
Perhaps... the best word to describe actions that contradict God's plan for is SIN.
And we are all guilty of sin.
Christ died for the pious person in the pew the same as he did for homosexual caught up in immorality.

 

[genuineoriginal]

A minority is a culturally, ethnically, religious or racially distinct group that has a shared sense of collective identity and community that coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group with socially shared rules about who belongs and who does not.

Pedophiles fail to meet the base definition of a minority because they are not a culturally distinct group.

Culture encompass things such as common ancestry, appearance, mode of dress, style, shared history, shared values, language, dialect or idioms, symbols, traditions, and/or communities. This unique culture produces a collective identity and a sense of belonging to that minority. That identity is internal and derives from inside the individual. These are markers of culture. These markers are transmitted from generation to generation. When you self-identify with a minority and find its culture base you learn the markers.

Good, you have identified that homosexuals are not a minority because they are not a culturally distinct group, they are just a bunch of sexual perverts.

 

[PureX]

My idea of righteousness is based on what God had written into His laws.

God didn't write any laws. You've just allowed yourself to presume that God did this so you could claim to know what God demands, and use it to lord over the rest of us.

Where does your idea of what "righteousness" come from, watching MTV perhaps?

If it did, that wouldn't be any sillier than claiming it comes from a few two-centuries old Jewish zealots.

Two thousand years ago, on the other side of the world, Paul had to contend with the immorality of the Roman culture, which is virtually identical to the immorality of the current American culture.

He didn't have to "contend" with anyone's immorality but his own. But he insisted on applying ancient Jewish religious morality to ancient Roman secular culture. Which he had no business doing.

Maybe you think that Paul was mistaken in telling the Christians to keep themselves clean from the immorality of the Roman culture of his day?

I don't care one way or another, as I am neither an ancient Jew nor an ancient Roman.

Otherwise, you have no valid reason for arguing that Christians should immerse themselves in the immorality of the current American culture.

Modern American Christians are already immersed in modern American culture. And it's where they belong

It is clear from the Bible that Christians are not to be under the Law, but it is also clear that the Law was written as a standard of righteousness.

Well, to a standard of righteousness acceptable for ancient Jews living two thousand years ago. But we're not Jewish, nor are we living two thousand years ago. So why should we care what their standards of righteousness were.

When you go about deciding what is righteous for yourself, and come to the conclusion that it is righteous to violate one of the commandments written in the Law, then there is a strong probability that what you think is righteousness is actually unrighteousness.

Based on what? Your reverence for two-thousand year old Jewish religious dogma?

You need to come up with a better excuse for your support of unrighteousness than the standard that declares homosexuality is unrighteous is a two thousand years old standard.

I don't need any excuses. God has placed us each in charge of our own moral priorities. And I agree with that decision. You're the one who wants to override God's design with your ancient Jewish scripture idol.

If you don't study the teachings of most of the Bible because you think they don't apply to you, then you will have no basis for determining which parts illuminate the Christ ideal.

Reality does that just fine. And if it didn't, it would be a useless ideal.

Are you so foolish that you believe that God had no part in the writing of the Bible?

God is being manifested in everything, all the time. So that's a silly question.

Maybe you think the words, "Thus saith the Lord," mean that God did not speak?

You just wrote those words, does that mean you are God, now?

Maybe you should pay more attention to the parts of the Bible that begin with, "Thus saith the Lord," so you will have a better idea of ideals that Christ based His life on.

Why? Men wrote those parts, too.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Perhaps we all use words like pervert to describe things we find offensive.

I use it according to the dictionary definition

_____
pervert

• a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior
• a person whose sexual behavior is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable.
• a person who practices sexual perversion.
• one that has been perverted; specifically : one given to some form of sexual perversion

_____​

 

[genuineoriginal]

God didn't write any laws. You've just allowed yourself to presume that God did this so you could claim to know what God demands, and use it to lord over the rest of us.

According to the Bible, God wrote 10 laws with His finger.
The rest of them were given verbally by God to Moses to write into the Law.

Maybe you didn't read the Bible?

He didn't have to "contend" with anyone's immorality but his own. But he insisted on applying ancient Jewish religious morality to ancient Roman secular culture. Which he had no business doing.

I don't see where Paul went about trying to correct the non-believing Romans about their immorality, but I see every letter written by Paul was used to correct believing Christians about their duty to stop acting according to Roman immorality.

Maybe you didn't read the Bible?

I don't care one way or another, as I am neither an ancient Jew nor an ancient Roman.

The New Testament was written for Christians.

Maybe you are not a Christian either?

Modern American Christians are already immersed in modern American culture. And it's where they belong

No, Modern American Christians belong in the Christian culture, not in the Modern American culture.

Well, to a standard of righteousness acceptable for ancient Jews living two thousand years ago. But we're not Jewish, nor are we living two thousand years ago. So why should we care what their standards of righteousness were.

We should care because these are the standards of righteousness set forth for Christians to meet.

If you are not a Christian, then I can see why you wouldn't care.

Why? Men wrote those parts, too.

If you are going this far to avoid believing what is written in the Bible, why are you still calling yourself a Christian?

Are you a troll?

 

[ok doser]

You keep repeating the lie that being born with dark skin is somehow comparable to being a sexual pervert.

No matter how often you repeat the lie, it will never be true.

it comes down to choice

one can choose whether or not to be a sexual pervert

one can not choose whether to be born with dark skin

Both pedophiles and homosexuals are sexual perverts that have chosen to act on their sexual perversions.

:thumb:

No, Modern American Christians belong in the Christian culture, not in the Modern American culture

:first:

 

[ok doser]

A minority is a culturally, ethnically, religious or racially distinct group that has a shared sense of collective identity and community that coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group with socially shared rules about who belongs and who does not.

Pedophiles fail to meet the base definition of a minority because they are not a culturally distinct group.

Culture encompass things such as common ancestry, appearance, mode of dress, style, shared history, shared values, language, dialect or idioms, symbols, traditions, and/or communities. This unique culture produces a collective identity and a sense of belonging to that minority. That identity is internal and derives from inside the individual. These are markers of culture. These markers are transmitted from generation to generation. When you self-identify with a minority and find its culture base you learn the markers.

Pedophiles don’t have any cultural trappings. Their individual identity is not derived from the group that is pedophiles. An individual who is a pedophile doesn’t see that as their primary identifier in life. Individuals who are pedophiles do not make use of a collective identity to frame themselves in relation to the rest of society. An individual pedophile has no emotional investment do not present themselves publically as a member of a collective identity. This is why there are no pedophile pride parades. Or pedophile cake toppers (whatever those are) Pedophiles don’t have a collective identity to express to others as a means of fitting into society.

Having worked with a good number of pedophiles I can also relate that pedophiles almost universally deny that they are pedophiles.

Being a part of a group is different from being a member of a minority. A group forms from people with an exterior feature or circumstance.

There is no writer’s culture but there are writers groups.

There is no dieter culture but there are dieting groups.

You can arbitrarily single out people with blue eyes and call them a group but they don’t constitute a minority because they do not have a culture or a collective identity.

Pedophiles are a group but they lack a culture and a collective identity meaning they aren’t a minority.

all those things that you claim exclude pedophiles from being a minority are equally applicable to fags :idunno:

 

[PureX]

According to the Bible, …

According to Shakespeare …, according to Homer …, according to Confucious …, wisdom has been passed down through the ages, routinely, using these kinds of mythical stories. There is no logical reason for me or anyone else to take this story or any of the others of this type, literally.

I don't see where Paul went about trying to correct the non-believing Romans about their immorality, but I see every letter written by Paul was used to correct believing Christians about their duty to stop acting according to Roman immorality.

Paul, like you, seems to have taken it upon himself to be the overlord of everyone else's beliefs and behaviors. And yet he had no more right or ability to make that presumption than me or you or anyone else. So I reject his presumption, as any reasonable person would.

The New Testament was written for Christians.

It was also written by Christians, which makes it quite error-prone.

No, Modern American Christians belong in the Christian culture, not in the Modern American culture.

They are far more modern Americans than they are two thousand year old Jews. So why are you insisting that they should think and behave like two thousand year old Jews?

We should care because these are the standards of righteousness set forth for Christians to meet.

Set forth by whom? Who put them in charge? And by what right or ability do they presume to do so?

No thanks. God has already determined that we will each decide for ourselves what righteousness is. And I will not surrender that responsibility to you, or to Paul, or to the Pope, or to anyone else.

If you are going this far to avoid believing what is written in the Bible, why are you still calling yourself a Christian?

Because biblical idolatry is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. And because you don't get to decide what Christ is for everyone else, nor who embodies it.

 

[ok doser]

... why are you still calling yourself a Christian?

good question


a better one might be, why is he allowed to identify himself as a Christian on a Christian website?

 

[Derf]

The problem with your theory, here, is that in the parable, it is God who assesses the hearts and souls of men, and rejects or accepts them. In the church, it's humans acting as if they were God, and assuming that they can read men's hearts and souls as God can. When they cannot.
The problem here is that different people have different ideas about what the proper "clothing" is. While only God actually knows.

So you're saying Paul was wrong to tell the Corinthian church to kick out the man involved in incest? Or are we at a complete loss as to what to do without the Apostles around?

Just to be clear, Paul didn't say to just remove him (the offending Corinthian) from the membership list, but to "remove him from among you", and "don't even let him eat with you" (my paraphrase of 1 Cor 5:11).