Abortion and The Holocaust....Differences?

[glassjester]

I (and all right minded inividuals, I hope) would as well. There's obviously a difference in how we see the fetus....and where do you draw the line? Can we terminate the pregnancy at ANY point? Is the fetus sacrosant immediately after the egg is fertilized? Ehhhhhmmmmm.

That's where the argument really is, right? When should the law work to protect the life of an individual human organism?

I say from the moment that particular human organism exists.

A fetus is a complete human organism, with its own DNA - distinct from its mother. It is its own individual human life.

Law in the United States recognizes fetal humans as individual, complete humans from the time of conception. This is why a killer of a pregnant woman can be charged with two counts of homicide.

Now why do we, as a nation, recognize the killer of an unborn child as a murderer... unless he gets permission from the mother?

 

[glassjester]

Imagine if I was murdered, and my killer stood trial.

And he was cleared of the charge of homicide, because it turned out he had a note from my mom, saying it was ok.

 

[The Horn]

Apart from China, no other nation has ever had a program forcing women to have abortions .
Elsewhere in the world, they have always had them of their own free will and because of their own personal problems. There has never been a concerted planoutside of China to force women to have abortions .
To call abortion a "holocaust" is to insult the memory of all the people who HAVE been victims of genocide, such as Jews , Armenians etc .
Abortion is a tragedy , but not a "holocaust ". It has been very common all over the world for thousands of years and is not the result of "hate", but desperation . And it is not going away . Period .

 

[glassjester]

Apart from China, no other nation has ever had a program forcing women to have abortions .
Elsewhere in the world, they have always had them of their own free will and because of their own personal problems. There has never been a concerted planoutside of China to force women to have abortions .
To call abortion a "holocaust" is to insult the memory of all the people who HAVE been victims of genocide, such as Jews , Armenians etc .
Abortion is a tragedy , but not a "holocaust ". It has been very common all over the world for thousands of years and is not the result of "hate", but desperation . And it is not going away . Period .

Ok. So if the Nazis had gotten permission from all the mothers of the victims, it would have made it alright?

 

[glassjester]

This is the most important point - my mother shouldn't have the right to "choose" to sentence me to death.

No one else has the right to do that; why should my mother?

 

[glassjester]

After looking back, we actually have two differences between abortion and The Holocaust.
1. Scale of the slaughter.
2. Level of intimidation by the government (this gap may be closing)

Come on people!

Hello, King cobra.

I got another one.

#3. The Nazis didn't get permission from their victims' mommies before slaughtering them. Those jerks.

 

[pqmomba8]

That's where the argument really is, right? When should the law work to protect the life of an individual human organism?

I say from the moment that particular human organism exists.

A fetus is a complete human organism, with its own DNA - distinct from its mother. It is its own individual human life.

Law in the United States recognizes fetal humans as individual, complete humans from the time of conception. This is why a killer of a pregnant woman can be charged with two counts of homicide.

Now why do we, as a nation, recognize the killer of an unborn child as a murderer... unless he gets permission from the mother?

It's a compelling argument. But you still have one major obstacle to cross - it's inside the mother and only she can have the final decision as to what to do with the fetus. That being said (and everything in life is subjective, of course) but I cringe at thought of an abortion after 6 - 7 months. Unless there's a compelling need - like the life of the mother. (But that's just me.) Ultimately - a woman must decide, NOBODY ELSE.

 

[glassjester]

Ultimately - a woman must decide, NOBODY ELSE.

And the government's job is, at the most basic level, to keep citizens from killing each other.

When the actions of one person cause harm to another, it's the role of government to step in.

What abortion law seeks to do is weigh the needs, desires, and rights of the pregnant woman against those of the unborn child, right?





Which ought to take precedence?

The woman's desire to live an unpregnant life rather than a pregnant life - for the better part of a year...

Or...

The unborn child's very life.

 

[King cobra]

So, I take it those are not your kidneys?

I’ll stick with ya, kid. I know you’re struggling.

Those are not my kidneys. If you or I had been aborted late term, our kidneys would have looked very much like those in the pic. And Planned PareTheHood would be excited to sell them.

So by your silence I'm to imply that you agree that the government has the right to forcibly invade your body, take a kidney for the higher purpose of saving the life of, say ....the President of the United States?

You can be certain that I agree that no one has the right to intentionally, with force (without permission), invade another living human’s body for the purpose of taking a kidney for the use of yet another.

This kind of evil is what the SS did and this kind of evil is what PP does.

Similarity!

We’re looking for differences!!!

 

[King cobra]

Hello, King cobra.

I got another one.

#3. The Nazis didn't get permission from their victims' mommies before slaughtering them. Those jerks.

OUCH!!

 

[King cobra]

But you still have one major obstacle to cross - it's inside the mother and only she can have the final decision as to what to do with the fetus.

The Jews were inside the MotherLand (or more commonly used, “Fatherland”) and only she (he) can have the final decision as to what to do with the subhuman.

This is another similarity to The Holocaust.

We're looking for DIFFERENCES!!

 

[King cobra]

OK. Here's a difference.

The level of victims’ foreknowledge:
This one is especially tough. While many of The Holocaust victims believed they were going to get “deloused” (humiliating as that was) many knew the fate that awaited them and witnessed the abominations around them. The horrors of those events are sickening and should never be forgotten. Each and every person deserved a full life with normal expectations. The expectation of growing up, the expectation of working to provide for loved ones, the expectation of falling in love and marrying, the expectation of enjoying family.

The unborn baby should, like the rest of us, if even subconsciously, be able to expect that next heartbeat to resonate quietly and on time.

Still, perhaps abortion is less egregious in this area.

 

[glassjester]

This thread is just terrible. I mean, plain awful.

I believe Quetzal is right. We should not mock the Holocaust.

 

[King cobra]

I believe Quetzal is right. We should not mock the Holocaust.

Maybe just forget about it?

 

[glassjester]

Maybe just forget about it?

That would be even worse, no?

 

[King cobra]

That would be even worse, no?

That would be the preference of the evil ones.

 

[quip]

I’ll stick with ya, kid. I know you’re struggling.

Those are not my kidneys. If you or I had been aborted late term, our kidneys would have looked very much like those in the pic. And Planned PareTheHood would be excited to sell them.

Not yours huh...ya don't say! :chuckle:

I suppose that's because you're opposed to having your body invaded since you made this bold pronouncement:

You can be certain that I agree that no one has the right to intentionally, with force (without permission), invade another living human’s body for the purpose of taking a kidney for the use of yet another.

Similarity!

We’re looking for differences!!!

In otherwords, the government shouldn't demand a "right to intentionally, with force (without permission), invade another living human’s body..."...except if that body is pregnant (and not yours). Right?

DING! We've found (another) difference folks...Cobra's hypocrisy. :wave2:

 

[glassjester]

That would be the preference of the evil ones.

You're right. But at no time should the discussion of any atrocity take on a mocking tone. Mocking can lead to desensitization and trivialization.

I think the devil would love if we didn't know he existed. If he can't get that, being trivialized would probably be his second choice.

 

[Quetzal]

Maybe just forget about it?

Don't forget about it, just present it in another way.

 

[chair]

Let's see.

1. Jews are not only non-human but dangerous.

Is that how it is?

That is how Nazis viewed us.