10 Vaccines That Saved The World

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CabinetMaker

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We are discussing an article I posted specifically about polio. Can't you follow the discussion? What do you disagree with in Dr. Humphries article? What studies are needed to prove her specific claims? Did you even read the article?

Polio has a vaccine. Polio has been eradicated from the U.S. In other parts of the world, where the polio vaccine is not commonly used, polio is still a health issue.

Improved clinical techniques and sanitation improve many things which is not the same thing as saying vaccines don't work or cause problems. So, if your good doctor wants to prove what she said, she needs to set up a double blind study and actually prove it.

Would you be willing to volunteer your kids for such a study? Why or why not.
 

aikido7

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Why attack Christians in a vaccine thread?
I am not attacking. I am simply pointing out that we live in a modern, scientific age. We no longer live in the ancient, three-tiered universe of the Bible.

Instead of praying for different weather, we consult meteorologists.
Instead of taking faith healing seriously, we go to medical science.

Because we are modern and live in a global culture does not mean we are attacking the past. We need to take the past seriously and interpret it as humans in the 21st century.

If you take God as a given, then you should know that He has already won. It's what Jesus did for us all.
 

elohiym

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So, if your good doctor wants to prove what she said, she needs to set up a double blind study and actually prove it.

To prove what claim specifically? You act like you didn't read the article I posted before commenting on it. What do you specifically disagree with in Dr. Humphries article, and what specific study would you like to see done to prove her claim?

Would you be willing to volunteer your kids for such a study? Why or why not.

I don't know what type of study you are imagining, so I can't answer you.
 

elohiym

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I am not attacking. I am simply pointing out that we live in a modern, scientific age. We no longer live in the ancient, three-tiered universe of the Bible.

That seems irrelevant to the discussion. Some Christians promote vaccination, and some non-Christians are vaccination skeptics.

Instead of praying for different weather, we consult meteorologists.

So when the meterologist tells you there is going to be drought you wouldn't pray for rain? You pray for an outcome not a forecast.

Instead of taking faith healing seriously, we go to medical science.

You will perish at the hands of doctors with that attitude. Over 400,000 people are killed by doctors every year. How many die when a faith healer lays his hands on them?

Because we are modern and live in a global culture does not mean we are attacking the past.

You appeared to be attacking Christians specifically.

We need to take the past seriously and interpret it as humans in the 21st century.

That doesn't mean we don't weigh the risks and benefits of vaccination, right?

If you take God as a given, then you should know that He has already won. It's what Jesus did for us all.

I agree with that.
 

CabinetMaker

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To prove what claim specifically? You act like you didn't read the article I posted before commenting on it. What do you specifically disagree with in Dr. Humphries article, and what specific study would you like to see done to prove her claim?



I don't know what type of study you are imagining, so I can't answer you.

Do you even know what a straight answer is?
 

CabinetMaker

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I know the following isn't a straight answer:

It is a straight answer because you are intentionally mistepresenting all of the under lying facts of knife injuries and gun injuries. For instance, on any given day, how many people work with knives and how many people work with guns? Do you think that pays a roll on the number of injuries?

Just ignore this, I posted it in the wrong thread. I was wondering what happened to this post...
 
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aikido7

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That seems irrelevant to the discussion. Some Christians promote vaccination, and some non-Christians are vaccination skeptics.
Valid concerns on both sides of the vaccination debate is secular- and science-based, not religious-based. Of course there are religious sensibilities that fear science and the modern world, or believe one version or another of "Christian Science."

But we live in a real world. If our daughter becomes pregnant we don't believe God had sexual relations with her. And if we believe our daughter was a virgin before, we don't see that as being the case after her misfortune.



So when the meterologist tells you there is going to be drought you wouldn't pray for rain? You pray for an outcome not a forecast.
My notion of God is not a vending machine. Like Jesus and his contemporaries understood the word, "faith" actually means "trust." And since God treats all equally he is not going to be effected by mass prayer.

I am not saying prayer is useless. It is a comfort and a reaching out for hope. Which God always has in infinite abundance. Prayer can help us feel centered and open to the Spirit. But there's not much proof of it being effective as far as breaking into our shared reality and allowing some supernatural force overcome Creation.

Any connection made by men between their interpretation of God and the cold, hard facts of life will just have to stand.



You will perish at the hands of doctors with that attitude. Over 400,000 people are killed by doctors every year. How many die when a faith healer lays his hands on them?
The best I can do is stand up for myself and use my intelligence to choose wisely when it comes to medical matters. I put authority in no man, whether he wears a white coat, has a clipboard or a cleric's collar.

Because doctors sometimes unwittingly kill, because a certain region of human settlement is prone to flash floods or because we have a hard day is not to be blamed on "God." We should trust God as Jesus did--not boss him around or fear him because of reality itself.



You appeared to be attacking Christians specifically.
I attack Christianity that does not take Jesus seriously. I try not to attack others for their own personal beliefs and theologies. We all have a sacred human right to hold our own notions of how Creation works.


That doesn't mean we don't weigh the risks and benefits of vaccination, right?
I don't think I ever said that. If so, I miscommunicated and did not explain it in a clear way so you could understand you.

I am not blaming you here. I am trying to be open and accountable for my own mistakes in responding to you.
 

elohiym

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Valid concerns on both sides of the vaccination debate is secular- and science-based, not religious-based.

Religion and ethics play a part, too. My religious beliefs preclude me from being intentionally infected with a live virus, even if the virus is attenuated.

Of course there are religious sensibilities that fear science and the modern world, or believe one version or another of "Christian Science."

Perhaps some, but certainly not all.

But we live in a real world. If our daughter becomes pregnant we don't believe God had sexual relations with her. And if we believe our daughter was a virgin before, we don't see that as being the case after her misfortune.

Virgin birth, also known as parthenogenesis, is natural occurrence that scientists have documented. Even though it is not considered to occur in mammals, parthenogenesis can begin if the egg is accidentally or experimentally activated as if it had been fertilized. The mammal will begin to develop but then terminate because of another phenomenon called imprinting. To claim a human virgin birth never occurred in history would be to claim the barrier of imprinting was never overcome by chance once or that God could not overcome a simple biological barrier that scientists are finding ways to manipulate in recent years.

My notion of God is not a vending machine. Like Jesus and his contemporaries understood the word, "faith" actually means "trust." And since God treats all equally he is not going to be effected by mass prayer.

Jesus said to ask and we would receive. That is what I do and my Father in heaven has been more generous to me and my children than any earthly father.

I am not saying prayer is useless.

Close enough.

I attack Christianity that does not take Jesus seriously. I try not to attack others for their own personal beliefs and theologies. We all have a sacred human right to hold our own notions of how Creation works.

You should discuss vaccines on this thread.

I am not blaming you here. I am trying to be open and accountable for my own mistakes in responding to you.

:e4e:
 

elohiym

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Aside from superstition, why do you object to vaccination?

Superstition is a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation. For example, on this thread, you have promoted beliefs and practices that result from your ignorance and a false conception of causation. You can see Vaccination: A Mythical History where you will find some of the myths you believe and have promoted on this thread are debunked.

My religious objections are not superstitious. For example, isolation and quarantine, as prescribed in the Bible, are evidence-based public health measures that have been shown to be effective in controlling outbreaks. The idea of avoiding infection by not intentionally infecting yourself is not based on superstition; it's common sense, and that is generally what health care providers practice when dealing with communicable diseases.
 

elohiym

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Can't you just post a few bullet points?

Did you provide bullet points for the videos you posted? No. I had to watch that garbage to see you were promoting mythology and superstition.

If you are too lazy to read, then don't. I expect nothing more from a hypocrite. But the answer to your question is there, and there you will find examples of the harms.
 

User Name

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Did you provide bullet points for the videos you posted? No. I had to watch that garbage to see you were promoting mythology and superstition.

Fine. Every member of the US military gets shot up with virtually every vaccine known to man, and military members are, on average, healthier than the general population.
 

elohiym

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Fine. Every member of the US military gets shot up with virtually every vaccine known to man, and military members are, on average, healthier than the general population.

That's just your superstition. Veterans, both male and female, are less healthy than the general population. See here and here. Furthermore, the VA tells veterans with Gulf War Syndrome that the vaccinations may have caused their health problems. See http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/gulfwar/sources/vaccinations.asp
 
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