10 Vaccines That Saved The World

[elohiym]

So you are opposed to the use of antibiotics to treat infected wounds.

You don't know that antibiotics are overused and failing us and think they are the only way to treat an infected wound. It's sad you can't imagine living without them, but that's how idolatry works.

Well you certainly have the right to opt out, although you should allow others their right to opt in if they wish.

A dear friend of mine died in reaction to an antibiotic, not the infection but the antibiotic. Should I have allowed him to take that antibiotic, or tried to prevent him?

Tell me, what other forms of modern medicine are you opposed to? All of it? You want no medical treatment and no surgery of any kind other than what is explicitly described in the Bible?

It's interesting that you think I should answer your questions when you didn't answer most of the questions I asked you on this thread. You didn't even have the courtesy to watch the videos I posted. Still, I'll give you an answer: I am opposed to any form of medical treatment that violates God's law or is not evidenced-based. Obviously, not every medical treatment falls under those categories; for example, oral rehydration therapy as a treatment for life-threatening diarrhea is moral and evidence-based. Intentionally infecting a child with a live virus is risky, immoral and not evidence-based.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Are you, User Name, suggesting humanity would have died out without vaccines?

 

[elohiym]

Exodus 15:26 And He said, "If you will give earnest heed to the voice of the LORD your God, and do what is right in His sight, and give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have put on the Egyptians; for I, the LORD, am your healer."

Exodus 23:24,25 "You shall not worship their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their deeds; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their sacred pillars in pieces. But you shall serve the LORD your God, and He will bless your bread and your water; and I will remove sickness from your midst.

Leviticus 13-15 contains commands that vaccination clearly violates. When Jenner took the discharged pus from an unclean person, cut the skin of the boy and applied the pus to the wounds, it was a blatant violation of God's law.

Sorry, but none of these versus can reasonably be used to justify your position.

Says the guy married to the pharmacist. Just more of your too-lazy-to-make-an-argument nonsense.

I agree that faith in God can protect us from much. I also know that none of us has faith the size of a mustard seed.

You're implying that faith can protect us from disease but nobody has faith. That's asinine because Christians are supposed to believe they are saved through faith. Obviously some people have faith the size of a mustard seed.

You, like poster User Name, have an ideology based on assumptions, fear and a fundamental lack of faith in God. Do I have to prove you lack faith when you just admitted you don't even have the faith of a tiny mustard seed?

Also, I am a Christiaan, I am not subject to judgement under the Law of Moses.

You will suffer the same consequences as the Egyptians if you reject God's commandments intended to keep you healthy. The laws of nature were not changed by the cross, just the means of atonement. It is written, "If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are."

 

[elohiym]

Are you, User Name, suggesting humanity would have died out without vaccines?

To believe that, he would have to ignore historical evidence of plagues ending without the help of vaccines. Granted, people suffering from cognitive dissonance are capable of ignoring evidence contrary to their choices.

A Lesson In Cognitive Dissonance

 

[CabinetMaker]

Says the guy married to the pharmacist. Just more of your too-lazy-to-make-an-argument nonsense.



You're implying that faith can protect us from disease but nobody has faith. That's asinine because Christians are supposed to believe they are saved through faith. Obviously some people have faith the size of a mustard seed.

You, like poster User Name, have an ideology based on assumptions, fear and a fundamental lack of faith in God. Do I have to prove you lack faith when you just admitted you don't even have the faith of a tiny mustard seed?



You will suffer the same consequences as the Egyptians if you reject God's commandments intended to keep you healthy. The laws of nature were not changed by the cross, just the means of atonement. It is written, "If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are."

I have Somebody the Egyptians didn't.

 

[elohiym]

I have Somebody the Egyptians didn't.

Not without the faith you claim you lack, silly.

 

[User Name]

You don't know that antibiotics are overused and failing us

Of course I do know that antibiotics are overused. That is common knowledge. That doesn't mean that there aren't proper uses for antibiotics.

and think they are the only way to treat an infected wound.

I'm open to alternatives to treat infected wounds. Do you have any?

A dear friend of mine died in reaction to an antibiotic, not the infection but the antibiotic. Should I have allowed him to take that antibiotic, or tried to prevent him?

I'm sorry to hear that a friend of yours died, apparently from a reaction to an antibiotic. Are you sure that the antibiotic killed him? What's the story?

 

[User Name]

Are you, User Name, suggesting humanity would have died out without vaccines?

Of course I am not suggesting that "humanity would have died out without vaccines." As I stated to elohiym earlier in this thread, the makers of the video in the OP were engaging in hyperbole by stating that vaccines "saved the world" in the title. Vaccines haven't "saved the world," but they have saved millions of people from diseases that they otherwise would have contracted and died from had they not been vaccinated.

 

[elohiym]

Of course I do know that antibiotics are overused. That is common knowledge. That doesn't mean that there aren't proper uses for antibiotics.

It's generally counter-intuitive and foolhardy to use substances that impair and destroy a part of the immune system in order to fight infection.

I'm open to alternatives to treat infected wounds. Do you have any?

It's good you are open to alternatives. Any suggestion I make would depend on the type and location of wound. For example, if you cut your finger and it becomes infected, the alternative to antibiotics is to let your immune system deal with the infection. You don't have to smear on a topical antibiotic; it's not an evidence-based treatment.

Topical Antibiotic Treatment for Uncomplicated Skin and Skin Structure Infections: Review of the Literature

Uncomplicated skin infections account for almost 200 million physician-office visits in the USA annually. Treating these infections is estimated to cost in excess of US$350 million each year. The primary etiology of these infections is Staphylococcus aureus, over 60% of which is estimated to be methicillin resistant across the USA. Therapeutic options include incision and drainage in combination with antimicrobial therapy, which may be oral, topical or occasionally parenteral. Because the effectiveness of the current oral options, such as β-lactams and other classes, is being eroded due to acquired resistance, older, untested agents such as trimethoprim–sulfamethoxazole or clindamycin are often being used. Thus, topical approaches may offer effective, localized, well-tolerated alternatives to the systemic regimen. However, their value in the management of uncomplicated skin infections is not yet clearly defined. This literature review discusses various topical antibiotic treatment options for uncomplicated skin infections, including over-the-counter and prescribed regimens.​

I'm sorry to hear that a friend of yours died, apparently from a reaction to an antibiotic. Are you sure that the antibiotic killed him? What's the story?

It was a reaction to the antibiotic; allergies to sulfonamides are common. Perhaps if the medical response to the anaphylaxis wasn't incompetent he would have survived. :idunno: Let's just say his death had solely iatrogenic causes. His drug injury was 100% preventable.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Vaccines haven't "saved the world," but they have saved millions of people from diseases that they otherwise would have contracted and died from had they not been vaccinated.

Do you believe human sinfulness and folly are threatening the world with mass extinction? Without a direct intervention by God or course correction, do you think humanity is behaving in a sane, sustainable fashion? What's the barrier to making the right choices in sustainability?

 

[elohiym]

Vaccines haven't "saved the world," but they have saved millions of people from diseases that they otherwise would have contracted and died from had they not been vaccinated.

That's your assumption, not ours. Fully vaccinated people can contract and die from tetanus. Millions of people have not been saved from death because of the tetanus vaccine; tetanus deaths were decreasing before introduction of the vaccine. That's just one of the vaccines mentioned in the video you posted.

 

[User Name]

That's your assumption, not ours. Fully vaccinated people can contract and die from tetanus. Millions of people have not been saved from death because of the tetanus vaccine.

Tetanus has become uncommon in the United States, with an average of 29 reported cases per year from 1996 through 2009. Nearly all cases of tetanus are among those who have never received a tetanus vaccine, or adults who don't stay up to date on their 10-year booster shots.​

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus_vaccine

 

[elohiym]

User Name,

Have you ever received the tuberculosis vaccine? That is one of the vaccines mentioned in the video. Let's discuss that one for a bit.

 

[elohiym]

Tetanus has become uncommon in the United States, with an average of 29 reported cases per year from 1996 through 2009. Nearly all cases of tetanus are among those who have never received a tetanus vaccine, or adults who don't stay up to date on their 10-year booster shots.​

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus_vaccine

Do you want me to debunk that?

If you believe it, explain why the scientific consensus that five tetanus vaccination provides life-time immunity is wrong. Five tetanus vaccinations are given to children in the U.S. before they are six, implying either the scientific consensus is wrong or Americans are being oversold a vaccine that is not necessary. Are you unaware that the U.S. tetanus vaccination schedule is excessive and unnecessary based on the scientific consensus? Apparently not.

There. I debunked at least part of that Wiki entry. The rest is really worthless information by itself.

 

[Alate_One]

You know, Use Name and others like him that just refuse to admit even the smallest mistake when, in fact, their entire premise is beyond foolish is exactly why I just don't visit TOL very much these days.

Gee I was thinking the same thing, except about denialists like elohiym and yourself. No amount of data will sway you. You always have some creative dodge for whatever it is.

Vaccines have to be bad, they can't have eradicated any disease, it's all a myth . . . blah blah blah.

The rest of us in not crazy land will continue vaccinating our children and unvaccinated people need to stay away from the rest of society.

 

[User Name]

User Name,

Have you ever received the tuberculosis vaccine?

Yes, I have received the tuberculosis vaccine. I have received most vaccinations available. I don't bother with annual flu shots though.

 

[User Name]

Do you believe human sinfulness and folly are threatening the world with mass extinction?

I think that it's a stretch to speak of extinction. Certainly, there are major problems in the world, but there are also good reasons for hope and a better tomorrow.

What's the barrier to making the right choices in sustainability?

We are making some right choices and some wrong ones. I'm not sure I understand the point of your question.

 

[User Name]

You are basically arguing that because we don't sacrifice animals for sin any more, following God's health laws would no longer keep us healthy. Now you can leave your feces lying on the ground unburied, right? Now you can touch lepers, right? Now it's a good idea to take pus from sick people and smear it in your open wounds, right? No, you can't do any of that without the bad consequences God promised. Common sense.

This is satirical. Of course, we should maintain proper hygiene, not because some Old Testament law says so, but because it lessens the spread of disease, improves appearance, etc...

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I think that it's a stretch to speak of extinction. Certainly, there are major problems in the world, but there are also good reasons for hope and a better tomorrow.

We see what nuclear plants have done, drilling off the great barrier reef, etc. What is the reason for all the madness?

Is the love of money clouding men's judgment on a dangerous scale?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Not without the faith you claim you lack, silly.

Who said I lacked faith? I think that us you jumping to unfounded conclusions again.