ECT WILL PENTECOSTALS TELL US WHY ??

[DAN P]

ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.)
If we plug in the definition we get.

19Go therefore and make disciples of all the races,
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the people,


If we look at Mark to get another view:
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

It looks like to me it's everyone in the world. All races, nations and all people.

Doesn't this include everyone in the world?
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Am I missing your point?

Hi and in John 11:50 it reads Nor consider that is expected for us , that ONE man should die for the people , and that the whole ETHNOS/GENTILES perish not !

#1 , The man that is dying will be Jesus , that the whole ( Jewish ) nation perish not , is the CONTEXT !

#2 , We see , that the word ETHNOS here does not mean GENTILE , AND FOR THIS REASON , tev/pete can not pass GO , AND COLLECT 200 dollars .

There are more verses that I can share later !!

Maybe rev'/pete will share what Eph 4:5 means , and what BAPTIZO /BAPTISMA means , since he is an expert on water Baptism !!:rotfl::rotfl:

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and in John 11:50 it reads Nor consider that is expected for us , that ONE man should die for the people , and that the whole ETHNOS/GENTILES perish not !

#1 , The man that is dying will be Jesus , that the whole ( Jewish ) nation perish not , is the CONTEXT !

#2 , We see , that the word ETHNOS here does not mean GENTILE , AND FOR THIS REASON , tev/pete can not pass GO , AND COLLECT 200 dollars .

There are more verses that I can share later !!

Maybe rev'/pete will share what Eph 4:5 means , and what BAPTIZO /BAPTISMA means , since he is an expert on water Baptism !!:rotfl::rotfl:

dan p

Yes, Gentile is one of the meanings but I think it best to look at the parallel passage, instead of a totally different passage, to get a better understanding of which definition is intended in Matt. 28:19.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and if Israel had accepted their Messiah , the Jacobs Trouble or the first 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation would have started <

But Israel rejected Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Israel was set aside in Acts 13:46 , Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 .

Then Christ called Paul by Grace and saved him Gal 1:15 and then began the Dispensation of the Frace of God , 1 Cor 9:17 , Rom 16:25 and 26 and Col 1:25 and 26 !

Now we are all saved by Grace in Eph 2:8 and 9 !!

Paul was the FIRST / PROTOS saved and placed into the Body of Christ 1 Tim 1:15 and 26 !!

dan p

Three questions here:
1. What did Jesus offer that the Jews rejected?
2. Since Jesus was not restoring the physical kingdom as prophesied, were the Jews in the right by rejecting Jesus? Is this an option for them?
3. I don't see where it says they were "put aside" in these passages. You know greek better than me, so does the greek indicate a "putting aside"?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

In the accounts of both the Samarians and the Ephesians, they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the laying on of hands, after water baptism in Christ's name.

LA

 

[turbosixx]

In the accounts of both the Samarians and the Ephesians, they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the laying on of hands, after water baptism in Christ's name.

LA

Yes, the Ephesian account is of special interest. We are told, by man, that baptism is merely an outward showing of an inward change. The Ephesians were taught the gospel and water baptized, showing the inward change, then why did they need to be baptized again. Because baptism does more than man claims and it's a scheme of the devil to belittle it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Yes, the Ephesian account is of special interest. We are told, by man, that baptism is merely an outward showing of an inward change. The Ephesians were taught the gospel and water baptized, showing the inward change, then why did they need to be baptized again. Because baptism does more than man claims and it's a scheme of the devil to belittle it.

Johns baptism did not give an inward change.

They had to change before being baptized.

The baptism in Christs name by water baptism does not give an inward change either, for they have to repent and believe first.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit does give the inward change in filling them with the love of God by the Spirit they receive.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The same goes for the Samarians in that their baptism in Christs name did not give them an inward change, for they believed before they were baptized, but they were not filled with the love of God by the Spirit until the Apostles came down and laid their hands on them.

Baptism has a lot to do with being joined to the people of the Lord, but it is an ordinance because for the Holy Spirit to come and live in the old body it requires washing from its past sins.

Paul obeyed such. MAD says it means nothing, and I do not see them overflowing with Gods love either.




LA

 

[patrick jane]

Johns baptism did not give an inward change.

They had to change before being baptized.

The baptism in Christs name by water baptism does not give an inward change either, for they have to repent and believe first.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit does give the inward change in filling them with the love of God by the Spirit they receive.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The same goes for the Samarians in that their baptism in Christs name did not give them an inward change, for they believed before they were baptized, but they were not filled with the love of God by the Spirit until the Apostles came down and laid their hands on them.

Baptism has a lot to do with being joined to the people of the Lord, but it is an ordinance because for the Holy Spirit to come and live in the old body it requires washing from its past sins.

Paul obeyed such. MAD says it means nothing, and I do not see them overflowing with Gods love either.

LA

one last statement - overflow ?

 

[newbirth]

Hi , and the Holy Spirit was poured out by the God the Father as Acts 2:33 explains ??

The verb " He hath shed " is in the AORIST or Past Tense and done with , don't you see !!

In other words you will never bring BRING IT BACK , any more than you will bring back Acts 2:38 which has to do with the CRUCFIXION of Jesus as Peter is trying Israel ro REPENT of it !!

Acts 2:17 or Joel's prophecy will begin in the middle of the 7 years Tribulation !!

dan p

seem as it did happen again...

Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

seems like Joel prophecy began at that time...

Acts 2:15-17King James Version (KJV)

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

[newbirth]

Hi,

Notice they are disciples first and baptism follows. In the Acts 2:38 scripture again repentance precedes baptism. God given repentance leads to conversion and what precedes repentance is Holy Spirit conviction of sin which is not mentioned in this verse. However, just because something is not mentioned does not mean that it doesn't happen. In the matter of conversion one has to take the whole of the NT teaching into account. Remember Peter and the other believers had just spilled out into the street and he was explaining what had happened and in that context he meant the filling of The Holy Spirit and not the conversion experience when one is baptised into The Body of Christ by The Holy Spirit.

Disciples are made by preaching the gospel and people being converted and then being baptised in water, then continuing to grow in grace. Hope this helps

Pete

baptism would be included in the making of a disciple.....converted would be the completion of the obedience to the process ...repent and be baptised...... and you shall receive the HS....

you are saying man converts himself....
the HS makes the conversion...from children of darkness to children of light...
Luke 22:31-33King James Version (KJV)

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

 

[oatmeal]

Hi to all , and in Acts 2:1 on the Day of Pentecost , they were ONE accord in one place !

And in verse 2 , there came a mighty Rushing wind !

Did you FEEL the Wind ?

Then there appeared unto them CLOVEN TONGUES like as FIRE , and sat on each of them !

The Pentecostals claim is that IF you have not been Baptized as in Acts 3 , you can not be saved !

If you were Baptized as those in Acts 2:1-4 , then , it is a group Baptism of the Holy Spirit !

Did you have A CLOVEN TONGUE of FIRE sitting on you ??

Explain the CLOVEN TONGUE ?

Explain , why Fire is used , and it's meaning ?

How were you able to receive HOLY SPIRIT and is it part of Salvation ??

DAN P

Dan,

Acts 2:1-4

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

It is a shame you cannot read what is written.

Does is say there was a wind? NO

What does it say?

There was a sound as or like a rushing mighty wind.

Big difference between the two.

When you start asking informed, intelligent questions.....

 

[DAN P]

Dan,
Does is say there was a wind? NO

What does it say?

There was a sound as or like a rushing mighty wind.

Big difference between the two.

When you start asking informed, intelligent questions.....

Hi , and LOL HERE !!

WIND / PNOE is there and means G4157 , breath , breath of Life , or WIND .

The verb " a Sound /ECHOS " means a sound , a Roar , or Rumble .

The verb " of a Rushing / PHERO " is found there in the Greek Present Tense , Mid or Passive Voice and a Participle !

It is Fascinating to read your FALLACIOUS post and like HONEYFUGGLE lead us all of us to LOL !!

dan p

 

[oatmeal]

Hi , and LOL HERE !!

WIND / PNOE is there and means G4157 , breath , breath of Life , or WIND .

The verb " a Sound /ECHOS " means a sound , a Roar , or Rumble .

The verb " of a Rushing / PHERO " is found there in the Greek Present Tense , Mid or Passive Voice and a Participle !

It is Fascinating to read your FALLACIOUS post and like HONEYFUGGLE lead us all of us to LOL !!

dan p

You still have not read the verse. Does it say there was a wind? NO, it does not. It says there was the sound of a rushing mighty wind.

You do not have to have a wind to have a sound AS a wind.

Learn to read what is written, start with the English, before you attempt to impress anyone with your Greek.

 

[DAN P]

You still have not read the verse. Does it say there was a wind? NO, it does not. It says there was the sound of a rushing mighty wind.

You do not have to have a wind to have a sound AS a wind.

Learn to read what is written, start with the English, before you attempt to impress anyone with your Greek.

Hi , and you are just BLOVIATING without substance and if there were not a WIND , the verb " it filled " would not be in the Aorist Tense and what is the Past Tense in English , LOL !!

You wrote that it is a Mighty Rushing Wind , and you write BILGE is what I see !!

Let me know when you graduate from grade school and send me your LIPS come certified !!:bang::bang:

dan p

 

[oatmeal]

Hi , and you are just BLOVIATING without substance and if there were not a WIND , the verb " it filled " would not be in the Aorist Tense and what is the Past Tense in English , LOL !!

You wrote that it is a Mighty Rushing Wind , and you write BILGE is what I see !!

Let me know when you graduate from grade school and send me your LIPS come certified !!:bang::bang:

dan p

Wind does not fill the temple

Sound can fill a temple.

Why do you doubt God's description of what occurred?

 

[revpete]

I agree, as far as I can see, everything in conversion is preceded by baptism except receiving the HS which comes with baptism. If we look at the order in Acts 2:38 "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”







Totally agree.







That is the process I see in scripture except I see the conversion is complete after baptism. I only know what I read, here is the order Jesus laid out:

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.



And here is an example of that order:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" 37[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] 38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away;

Ok, I think I follow what you are saying. When you quote the Mark verse remember that they may not belong in Holy Scripture, that debate goes on.

Baptism is preferable yes but not necessary if circumstances do not allow it. To dogmatically state that water baptism (not Spirit baptism) always completes conversion is to run into problems. Employing that logic means that the penitent thief on the cross could not be saved in spite of Jesus' promise that he would be with Him in paradise. The same would apply to all genuine death bed conversions.

Scripture draws a distinction between baptism by The Holy Spirit, which happens at conversion 1 Cor. 12:13 and water baptism which is the outward public witness of that conversion. In Acts Ch. 2 on the day of Pentecost when the Christian Church was born the disciples were filled with The Holy Spirit and on occasion later Acts. 4:31; 13:52. One baptism many fillings by The Holy Spirit. One baptism in water as an outward sign of conversion.

Pete

 

[DAN P]

Wind does not fill the temple

Sound can fill a temple.

Why do you doubt God's description of what occurred?

Hi and are still a BUNKUM and your belief of the written word is more of a CHARLATAN !!

DAN P

 

[turbosixx]

Ok, I think I follow what you are saying. When you quote the Mark verse remember that they may not belong in Holy Scripture, that debate goes on.

I agree, but I don't see that it creates a conflict with other passages.

Baptism is preferable yes but not necessary if circumstances do not allow it. To dogmatically state that water baptism (not Spirit baptism) always completes conversion is to run into problems. Employing that logic means that the penitent thief on the cross could not be saved in spite of Jesus' promise that he would be with Him in paradise. The same would apply to all genuine death bed conversions.

Pete ��

How were the thief's sins forgiven if Christ hadn't offered his blood for the sins of the world yet?

 

[turbosixx]

..... and water baptism which is the outward public witness of that conversion.
Pete

Could you please show me how you come to this conclusion using scripture.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Hi and are still a BUNKUM and your belief of the written word is more of a CHARLATAN !!

DAN P

Your opinion means nothing, and it is so silly to offer such infantile ways of disagreeing with someone.

LA

 

[DAN P]

I agree, but I don't see that it creates a conflict with other passages.



How were the thief's sins forgiven if Christ hadn't offered his blood for the sins of the world yet?

Hi , and lets see if rev/pete can answer the following question ?

#1 , Did the Thief bring Fruits of Repentance , Matt 3:8 ?

#2 , Why was the Thief not Baptized ?

#3 , WHY is the Thief appear in the Kingdom of Heaven ?

#4 , Where is this Kingdom of Heaven to be set up and WHEN ?

#5 , After the Thief died , he is in Paradise ?

#6 , Why did the Thief not go to Heaven ?

If he can not answer , maybe you can ??

dan p