Hi , and all Pentecostals can not help you as they do not understand what a Timeline is , nor know if Matt 16:18 is in Past Tense , Present Tense or in the Future Tense , an talk about confusing .
Be glad to help you any time !
dan p
ECT WILL PENTECOSTALS TELL US WHY ??
- Thread starter DAN P
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Hi , and all Pentecostals can not help you as they do not understand what a Timeline is , nor know if Matt 16:18 is in Past Tense , Present Tense or in the Future Tense , an talk about confusing .
Be glad to help you any time !
dan p
turbosixx
New member
I agree. So if I understand your viewpoint, the "body" or "church" was planned but not built until after Jesus death, burial and resurrection. So when do you see it established?
andyc
New member
The church was born when the Holy Spirit was poured out.
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
Hi and if Israel had accepted their Messiah , the Jacobs Trouble or the first 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation would have started <
But Israel rejected Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Israel was set aside in Acts 13:46 , Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 .
Then Christ called Paul by Grace and saved him Gal 1:15 and then began the Dispensation of the Frace of God , 1 Cor 9:17 , Rom 16:25 and 26 and Col 1:25 and 26 !
Now we are all saved by Grace in Eph 2:8 and 9 !!
Paul was the FIRST / PROTOS saved and placed into the Body of Christ 1 Tim 1:15 and 26 !!
dan p
andyc
New member
Nope
1Tim 1:15-17
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
You need to put your books away and reed the bible. "First" is not talking about first in time, but first in rank. The words "chief" and "first" are translated from the Greek word "proto". And it is obvious that Paul is talking about him being the first in rank where sinners are concerned. He regarded himself as the worst / chief of sinners, and so if Paul could be forgiven, anyone could be, because with Paul, Jesus showed all longsuffering.
You are looking for MAD everywhere in the bible, and just not finding it.
Hi , and FIRST / PROTO means first and in also translate BEGINNING in John 2:10 and chief , I do not accept YOUR KJV-ONLY translation as the Greek text does not support your Irrevelant or Illogical BLOVIATING !!
In Phil 3:17 the Holy Spirit says that PAUL " concering Righteousness of the Law is BLAMELESS !!!!!!!:crackup::crackup:
Leave Peter's Gospel as you are FALLEN from Grace , Gal 5:4 !!
DAN P
andyc
New member
Very silly comment.
Paul actually tells you why he's the first of sinners, and it is not according to time, it's because he regards himself as the worst of the lot. The first in rank.
Hi , and I give verses of scripture and you give me SILLY !!
So , explain Phil 3:5 and 6 and I see that you speak BUNKUM !!
The Kitchen is to Hot for you , leave the KITCHEN and explain scripture !!:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Ok, I'm trying to follow your line of thinking. Here is my problem with Paul being the first to be added to the body.
Can we agree that the church and the body are one? If so, then Christ purchased the church with his blood. Acts 20:28....to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. So after his D,B & R he tells the apostles how to make Christians. Matt. 28:19 G"o therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them"
So in your understanding, what were these people added to? Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Hi , and I have to go and will reply on Wednesday , BUT HERE IS THE FIRST CLUE , what does the Greek word ETHNOS / GENTILE mean in Matt 28:19 and why were the 12 to teach those who believed ??
Maybe LAZY OR rev/pete can help you !! I don't think so !!:crackup::crackup::crackup:
dan p
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turbosixx
New member
ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.)
Original Word: ἔθνος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ethnos
Phonetic Spelling: (eth'-nos)
Short Definition: a race, people, the Gentiles
Definition: a race, people, nation; the nations, heathen world, Gentiles.
Same word is used here describing the judgement:
Matt. 25: 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
I'm not seeing your point.
turbosixx
New member
I see where the Jews rejected what they were offered but I don't see any words that say they were set aside. You know greek better than I, are there greek words that mean that in these passages?
turbosixx
New member
ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.)
If we plug in the definition we get.
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the races,
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
19Go therefore and make disciples of all the people,
If we look at Mark to get another view:
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
It looks like to me it's everyone in the world. All races, nations and all people.
Doesn't this include everyone in the world?
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Am I missing your point?
turbosixx
New member
The reason Jesus sent them out to the Jews only is because who was looking for the messiah? They were the ones who had the prophecies and knew what to look for to validate his arrival.
Acts 17:.... and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ."
It can and does, but here it's not only the Jewish nation. It says "all".
Hi and we are taking about Matt 28:19 are we not ?
You will not answer what Matt 28:19 means ?
You and I have written what ETHNOS will be and can be translated ?
Pentecostals will never explain Matt 10:5 , nor verse 7 , for the Context of the Gospels is all OT , and if it not OT , what testament is it written TO ??
dan p
Jesus was raised up under the old covenant but he ministered from/in the Spirit of the new covenant.
LA
revpete
New member
Hi,
Notice they are disciples first and baptism follows. In the Acts 2:38 scripture again repentance precedes baptism. God given repentance leads to conversion and what precedes repentance is Holy Spirit conviction of sin which is not mentioned in this verse. However, just because something is not mentioned does not mean that it doesn't happen. In the matter of conversion one has to take the whole of the NT teaching into account. Remember Peter and the other believers had just spilled out into the street and he was explaining what had happened and in that context he meant the filling of The Holy Spirit and not the conversion experience when one is baptised into The Body of Christ by The Holy Spirit.
Disciples are made by preaching the gospel and people being converted and then being baptised in water, then continuing to grow in grace. Hope this helps
Pete
turbosixx
New member
I'm having to assume what your point is. I guess you want ETHNOS to mean the Jews only. Is that correct?
I'm not trying to be smart, but this is what I understand it to mean:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
turbosixx
New member
I agree, as far as I can see, everything in conversion is preceded by baptism except receiving the HS which comes with baptism. If we look at the order in Acts 2:38 "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Totally agree.
That is the process I see in scripture except I see the conversion is complete after baptism. I only know what I read, here is the order Jesus laid out:
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
And here is an example of that order:
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" 37[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] 38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away;