Why would God need a hell?

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Aimiel

Aimiel

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freelight said:
A list that is laughable as it is entertaining.

Furthermore, as we entertain various concepts about 'God', and mull over our own pet theologies,.....a finite mind such as yours or mine cant even fathom THE INFINITE. So, at best you just have symbolic language, carrying so many assumptions, translations and interpretations, which is the 'tower of Babel'. Hence, while language may serve as a 'gate',...its still a matter of using language properly to guide one, or point one in the right direction, to the absolute reality itself. - all else is 'relative', and only a de-scription at best.

All this about eternal hellfire is also 'figurative',...but that souls will be detained in hellfire forever and ever, is pure insanity.
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Not nearly as insane as believing everything you read EXCEPT the Bible. Christians can fathom the infinite, with the eye of Faith, which is given to children of The Kingdom. Please keep in mind that it is a kingdom that you can't even see since you're not born again.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

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Mickiel said:
I don't think religion realizes that humanity exist because the awesome mind of God got pregnant and wanted a VERY big family of his own children; not angels, but his own offspring! We are the generate of God! And he will not loose any of us!
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Universalists believe fairy tales, not sound doctrine. You need Jesus.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

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Aaron the Tall said:
There is no dichotomy between love and just punishment. You must at least admit that - even if you don't personally think hell is just punishment.
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Sure, a loving parent chastises their children when necessary but the punishment, if borne of love is for the actual benefit of the child overall.

If a judge let the worst killer/rapist go free without any penalty, you wouldn't consider the judge loving and good - you would consider the judge corrupt. The just judge doesn't "hate" the killer when he enforces justice.
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I'd consider them downright irresponsible and should be up for prosecution themselves never mind being corrupt. As an analogy for 'hell' though it simply doesn't work. First and foremost we have laws to protect society from violent criminals as well as serving a penalty as that's the only way a civilized society can operate. Of course I think that those who take life, rape, molest etc should be severely punished for the lives they've torn apart as well.

What do you personally believe is a just punishment for rejecting God?
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Define "reject" else there's little parameter to work with here. If it helps any then I don't consider agnostics/atheists/those of faiths besides 'Christianity' to be rejecting God whereas you might.

If rejecting God is presumably the worst possible thing anyone could ever do, there must be a punishment that fits the crime - or God would not be a good God.
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As above, and in any case why would there need to be an eternal place of torment in order for God to be good? Because you think those who don't believe as you deserve it? I notice you didn't address my questions to you in this reply so I'll ask them again. You're a fallible human being like the rest of us right? You've screwed up in multiple ways just like all folk right, to whatever extent that might happen to be? Yet you decree that other people deserve to be in torment for an eternity because you did something to avoid it?

If God created hell, I presume the reason is because it is the only just punishment that fits the worst crime we could commit. If hell is the only possible just punishment for rejecting God - then God, like the just judge - doesn't "hate" by sending the sinner there.
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Then here lies the dichotomy. If God is love - then why create fallible creatures who for the most part would not make the mark to avoid this 'place' set up by His own parameters? Nobody gets a say in being thrust into this existence, all the pain and obstacles that can be present just on this plain and then having a handful of years to 'find the right path' or ending up there in an afterlife.

The real question is whether or not hell is an appropriate punishment.

I don't think hell is a place of burning and torture - I think it is a place of separation from God. Do you think separation from God is an appropriate punishment for those that reject Him?
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You see it as a place of torment right? Torture/torment, it's pretty much semantics when you get down to it as it would be a terrible state of suffering regardless right? Why don't you see it as fiery though? Do you use your own thought processes to determine that it isn't actual fire? Why see it the way that you do? As above as regards the 'rejection' angle. It should be pretty obvious I have no truck with the concept of eternal interminable suffering although that doesn't mean I don't think justice doesn't happen, just not along 'doctrinal black and white' lines.
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
I maintain sanity......

I maintain sanity......

Aimiel said:
Urantia is more insane than Mormons' phony religion, yet you accept it. :duh:
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The UB is a religious book among other religious books or revelations, and has its own special or significant message and value for our planet. To discover such value or meaning, one must read/research its pages for themselves. For your info.,...the UB is much more illuminating, comprehensive and ahead of the LDS scriptures, so there is no real comparison there, as they also fill different category of writing, given the subject-contents. The UB's cosmic revelation is on a scale soaring miles above. Therefore I find your statement above somewhat amusing.

The UB also rejects ECT, so on that count of its spiritual intelligence,...it scores well ;)
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Mickiel said:
...Ps. 107:1, " O give thanks to the Lord, for he is Good; his Mercy endureth Forever!" This never ending Mercy of God cancels out the doctrine of everlasting merciless punishing that Christianity has passed out in millions of pamphlets and leaflets...
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God is good. No innocent person goes to hell.

"Ps. 107:1–43 The opening line of Pss. 105–107, “Oh, give thanks to the LORD,” links together this trilogy of songs which praise God for His goodness and mercy to Israel. Most likely this psalm has a post-Exilic origin (cf. 107:3). The psalm develops two main themes: 1) praising God for His continual deliverance (107:4–32), and 2) remembering God’s response to man’s obedience/disobedience (107:33–42).

The Call to Praise (107:1–3)
The Cause of Rejoicing—Deliverance (107:4–32)
The Consequences of Obedience/Disobedience (107:33–42)
The Commentary on Wisdom/Understanding (107:43)" MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 840). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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People don't deserve a Christian hell, we ought to have the mind of Christ, who said on the cross while they were killing him, " Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing." When a human mind does not believe in God, when they reject Christ, they don't know what they are doing. You don't ship them off to some hell, what kind of therapy is that? The world still does not know what it is doing.

In Isaiah 25:7, " And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all the people, and the veil that is spread over all nations." That covering and veil is still there, the people are still blind, the vail is only removed on a very small group. Stop condemning people, you don't know what you are doing.

I have used over 350 scriptures in this thread, not one of them has gotten through to the Christian mind, because there exist a veil on that mind as well. Even the bible cannot remove certain coverings on the human mind.
 
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Mickiel

Mickiel

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Aimiel said:
Universalists believe fairy tales, not sound doctrine. You need Jesus.
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I am not a Universalist, but I agree with them on salvation, its a free inheritance. And I do need Jesus, I most certainly do; the good thing for me is that no religion can keep Jesus from me. I am a sinner, Jesus came to earth " Seeking sinners", that means he is looking for people like me , and that is good news for us sinners!

Jesus has NEVER lost a sheep he was looking for, show me that in scripture. So its looking good for us sinners, we do have a Savior from the hell in religion. I need not fear any threats that come from religion.
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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You ever wonder why bible readers cannot see all of the " All's" in scripture?

http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/DoYouBelieve.html

Each of these all's, and there are 75 of them in scripture, maybe a little bit more, why don't they fill the reader full of hope, and get them off of the dope of hell? I understand the addiction to hell is strong, but a look into the word of God ought to be stronger.
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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In Gen. 6:5, and I speculate this period to be around anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 years after Adam;, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was Great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only continually evil." So early in the lives of men, and already God is thinking of destroying them all. But he lets it continue on up onto this day.

Why?
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Mickiel said:
In Gen. 6:5, and I speculate this period to be around anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 years after Adam;, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was Great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only continually evil." So early in the lives of men, and already God is thinking of destroying them all. But he lets it continue on up onto this day.

Why?
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Well, some verses in the Torah are problematic, since here it says 'God' repented (was sorry) that he even created man, so he sent a flood to wipe out most of the souls on earth, save a few. 'God' who is Infinite Intelligence itself, would know all the potentials and possibilities of man granted his 'free will', so it would be no 'surprise' to 'God' that man in his simple, ignorant and imperfect condition would act out on his more base, evil, selfish tendencies in his journey of self-discovery. In any case man's good divine potential and possibilities also lies innate within him, and these are to be manifested in due time, provided the conditions are right for their full potential to be realized.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Mickiel said:
I am not a Universalist, but I agree with them on salvation, its a free inheritance. And I do need Jesus, I most certainly do; the good thing for me is that no religion can keep Jesus from me. I am a sinner, Jesus came to earth " Seeking sinners", that means he is looking for people like me , and that is good news for us sinners!

Jesus has NEVER lost a sheep he was looking for, show me that in scripture. So its looking good for us sinners, we do have a Savior from the hell in religion. I need not fear any threats that come from religion.
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I don't believe in religion, either, but I do believe Jesus' description of hell. Can't ignore Truth, just because I don't know enough to second-guess God.
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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Aimiel said:
I don't believe in religion, either, but I do believe Jesus' description of hell. Can't ignore Truth, just because I don't know enough to second-guess God.
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If you don't mind, I would like to see Jesus giving a description of hell. I mean, just to see what you said you saw him give.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

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freelight said:
That's quite an oxymoron.

Basically - 'God is good, but you'll fry in hell if you deserve it'. :doh:
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God is just ,

Joh 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

tell us why you don't deserve an eternity of punishment ?
 
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