Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

Mickiel

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You know, with all this Christian talk of hell, how they actually keep seeing this hell in their bibles, you ever wonder what they think " Mercy is?" It means to pardon from a penalty; to have compassion on; is that not in the bible too? In fact, Mercy triumphs over even judgment, James 2:13. What happened to the mercy in Christianity when they created this eternal remedy for unbelievers to be constantly punished for their sins? With their hell doctrine, judgment has triumphed over mercy!

In Psalms 6:4 David makes a plea to God, "Return, O Lord, deliver my soul; oh save me for thy Mercies sake!" Here David reveals that salvation is the result of God's mercy; a human can be saved based solely on the mercy God has. The thief on the cross next to Christ was not saved for anything he had said to Jesus, he was saved for Mercy sakes! Jesus simply had mercy on him. But the eyes of Christianity does not see that mercy, they " See" it as a result of something the thief DID or SAID; thus his salvation is accredited by his own actions, and not the actions of Christ. And I see that kind of thing all in Christianity; they need to give credit to themselves, rendering salvation as a reward for what the believer has done. The thinking is like this; " I repented, I used my will to choose, I obeyed, I accepted Christ, I am responsible for my eternal life!" This is a very sub line deception, because it empowers self in salvation, a kind of Romans 10:3, " Going about to establish their own righteousness", their salvation is totally based on things THEY did with their will. In this manner the very meaning of mercy is choked out and lost! Because really mercy is FOR those who really NEED it! Those who are really lost, those who are guilty! Hardcore self righteousness can be merciless.

The world NEEDS the mercy of God, they need him to be kind to them in the day of salvation In Romans 11:1, " Has God cast away his people?" God forbid, no! The whole earth is the Lords, and that is speaking of the people, not the rocks and grass. But religion is severely infected with the " Anointed Attitude", the " Chosen", the special group! Doctrines that seek to separate people from God and his Kingdom because they are NOT part of the lucky ones. Doctrines that " Shut off the Kingdom from men", Matt. 23:13, move them away from the mercy of God.
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You could learn something from a 'heretic'.....

You could learn something from a 'heretic'.....

serpentdove said:
:yawn: No one wants your money, antichrist (2 Cor 9:7).

As a reminder Caino is number 38 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:
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A list that is laughable as it is entertaining.

Furthermore, as we entertain various concepts about 'God', and mull over our own pet theologies,.....a finite mind such as yours or mine cant even fathom THE INFINITE. So, at best you just have symbolic language, carrying so many assumptions, translations and interpretations, which is the 'tower of Babel'. Hence, while language may serve as a 'gate',...its still a matter of using language properly to guide one, or point one in the right direction, to the absolute reality itself. - all else is 'relative', and only a de-scription at best.

All this about eternal hellfire is also 'figurative',...but that souls will be detained in hellfire forever and ever, is pure insanity.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Mickiel said:
...The ungodly themselves are not destined to perish, but " The Way" of ungodliness will no longer exist. That way of life will perish; this again is good news for the ungodly.
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:idunno: God has lots of good news for the ungodly. :dizzy: Heb 10:31
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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The longsuffering of God, IS salvation, 2 Pet. 3:15. This is again good news for unbelievers, anytime the bible puts the weight on God for salvation, it removes more weight from man; and we NEED that! Religion looks to increase the weight on humans for their salvation, put more burden on them. The free will doctrine is one of those greatest weights designed to put pressure on humans for their salvation. Cloaked in a false illusion of freedom, the individual is taught that they must freely decide to choose God, or they cannot have salvation. Those who helped create that doctrine of free will, just do not know God; they don't know how God is, and his reality.

In reality, God does not give anyone in heaven a choice; there is only one way in heaven and reality, God's way. There really is no other way there. There is only one way to deal with God, and that is you obey him, there is no other choice. The Angels and all other heavenly beings, including Christ, they do as they are told; period! On earth, we just live in the illusion that salvation is according to " Our Will." God IS the Alpha and Omega, he IS the only choice in heaven. God allowed the illusion of there being choices on earth , because he is tolerating things which he has enlisted in our divine development. Really human salvation is a pre determined destiny, we had absolutely no choice in being born, and will have none in being born again! God is NOT leaving human salvation up to humans, just as he did not leave our lives, or human birth up to humans. In HIM we live and move and have our very being, not in our will. In Phil. 2:13, " For IT IS GOD which worketh in you BOTH to will and DO his good pleasure!" God is the real force behind human will. And this is again good news for unbelievers, because it puts the weight and molding of human will on God ; where it truly belongs.

So salvation is a longsuffering of God having supreme faith in himself , the pressure is released off of humanity and handled by God. This is why unbelief cannot stop human salvation. In Romans 3:3, " Well what if some did not believe". Will their unbelief make " The Faith of God" without effect? No, God forbid! Their unbelief cannot change the faith God has in himself and the pre determined destiny he desires for all of humanity.
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

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freelight said:
A list that is laughable as it is entertaining.

Furthermore, as we entertain various concepts about 'God', and mull over our own pet theologies,.....a finite mind such as yours or mine cant even fathom THE INFINITE. So, at best you just have symbolic language, carrying so many assumptions, translations and interpretations, which is the 'tower of Babel'. Hence, while language may serve as a 'gate',...its still a matter of using language properly to guide one, or point one in the right direction, to the absolute reality itself. - all else is 'relative', and only a de-scription at best.

All this about eternal hellfire is also 'figurative',...but that souls will be detained in hellfire forever and ever, is pure insanity.
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+1
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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God is too sure of himself to have children that he would later abort, Is.66:9. Believers who actually think universal salvation is not possible, just really don't understand that God is not going to give birth to trillions of humans, only to loose most of them. God is a giver of life. And God is unique in many ways still yet unknown to people.

You may see the often asked questions; " Where did God come from?" Who created God? I always give the answer that God created parts of himself. In Job 40:6-11 God is describing to Job things he had done and can do. In verse 10 God reveals that he " Decked himself with majesty and excellency", and arrayed himself with glory and beauty. God did these things to himself, that's just how powerful he is. Notice closely Psalms 93:1, " The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with strength, where with he has " Girded himself." In other words, he gave himself more strength and Majesty! So God actually created parts of himself!

Well, where did God come from? In Psalms 93:2, " Your throne is established of old; you are FROM Everlasting!" God came from eternity! That is where he is from. You could go as far back as you can conceive, and God was there, or go as far forward as the human mind could conceive, and God is already there, before you get there. And he lives in both reality's at the same time! God came from a reality where human time has no reality; time does not even exist where God came from. In Ps. 92: 5, " Oh Lord how Great are your works! And your thoughts are VERY Deep!" I don't think those believers who reject the salvation of all, really understand just how long and wise God thought on having humanity become his very children. His extra ordinary mind would in no manner exclude any of created humanity; God has our complete salvation all worked out to perfection, and that is one reason why many believers in God cannot see him saving us all, because that would be a perfect scenario.

God is a perfect being, yet even he increases things about himself. He add's things to himself, and that is really what humanity is, God extending inwards parts of himself, outward into reality, and giving those parts individual self substaining life! God did this to Jesus; notice John 5:26, " For as the Father has life in himself, so has he given the Son to have life in himself." Individual life from God. Jesus came from God; God birthed him. In John 8:42 Jesus said, " I proceeded forth and came from God"; that is his original birth right there. In John 6:57 Jesus revealed that he is alive because of the Father!

I don't think religion realizes that humanity exist because the awesome mind of God got pregnant and wanted a VERY big family of his own children; not angels, but his own offspring! We are the generate of God! And he will not loose any of us!
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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I think that, subconsciously, religions are putting a type of price on salvation. Out of one side of its mouth, religion agrees that eternal life is being freely given by God, but then out of the other side of their mouths, the price begins to be tabulated;

You have to accept Christ
You must believe
You must obey
You must repent
You have to live right
You have to go to church
You have to Tithe
You must be born again
You must be a Christian
You have to have faith

You know, you have to DO all these things or the freedom of salvation cannot be yours. Its like, " Okay, you can have life, but you have to make these adjustments in order to live."

In Rev. 22:17, " Whosoever will, let them take of the water of life freely!" Religion will even put a " But" on this wonderful verse; " But' the person has to want it! Then that " Wanting" becomes another part of their list of cost.

Human believers are the biggest barrier to salvation that I can see now!
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

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Mickiel said:
I think that, subconsciously, religions are putting a type of price on salvation. Out of one side of its mouth, religion agrees that eternal life is being freely given by God, but then out of the other side of their mouths, the price begins to be tabulated;

You have to accept Christ
You must believe
You must obey
You must repent
You have to live right
You have to go to church
You have to Tithe
You must be born again
You must be a Christian
You have to have faith

You know, you have to DO all these things or the freedom of salvation cannot be yours. Its like, " Okay, you can have life, but you have to make these adjustments in order to live."

In Rev. 22:17, " Whosoever will, let them take of the water of life freely!" Religion will even put a " But" on this wonderful verse; " But' the person has to want it! Then that " Wanting" becomes another part of their list of cost.

Human believers are the biggest barrier to salvation that I can see now!
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In my experience the way to salvation is by quitting trying to do all the above. By trying to attain salvation I was under the influence of an unconscious temptation. The temptation was to believe that salvation has not already been accomplished and also that I am separate from salvation and separate from God. The cost was drastic loss of self esteem and the ever pervasive feeling I need to accomplish, to earn, to do, to excel, to work, to suffer etc. in order to get something that could ease the pain I felt from the loss of self esteem. I honestly thought there was something I could do or get to plug that hole. Nothing works except the soul. So I believed I had to do something when in fact I had it in reverse: I had to stop doing something. I had to stop identifying with anything other than my true infinite and eternal self.

The personality is very very sneaky. It will do anything and everything to avoid the soul. It dangled false promises in my face like a carrot in front of a donkey. It tricked me over and over again into thinking I had to earn my value through beliefs, religion, careers, relationships, etc. It only tells part of the truth by limiting our awareness of who and what we are to make us feel safe, comfortable and on familiar territory. The truth is that we are much more than what we think. The personality also keeps people stuck waiting for the future or stuck in the past. This guarantees we will not experience the Kingdom which is only found in this present timeless moment right here and right now. It's easy to fall into the personality's many many traps because it has become very good at what it does and has been operating without detection for centuries. These traps are built into the fabric of civilization around us which are passed down through the generations without much questioning. Do not be deceived!
 
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Mickiel

Mickiel

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The doctrine of eternal hell punishing is a type of bondage , it teaches, in fact, that God will keep humans in horrible bondage forever! It is robbing clarity from salvation and many believers in God are pushing this teaching, looking to shrink the Kingdom of God and place a large section of humanity in their bondage and rob them, in their minds, of the true liberty in Christ. In Galatians 2:4, " And because of false brethren that were brought in unawares, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage." Believers in God who are seriously unaware of this false hell doctrine, think that this bondage needs to be a part of the gospel.

So they saturate this world with this bondage , believing that eternal bondage and suffering of unbelievers, is God's holy solution and his remedy for sin. Hell is a bondage, an enemy of the true freedom in Christ. In Gal. 5:1, " Stand fast therefore in the liberty where Christ has made us free , and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

You don't seek to set a people free, by adding to them a threat of a worse bondage than they have experienced before.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Mickiel said:
The longsuffering of God, IS salvation, 2 Pet. 3:15...
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And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you [2 Pet. 3:15].

"“The longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.” That is, His patience in delaying His return in judgment is providing an opportunity for men to be saved." McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 5, p. 751). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Mickiel said:
...This is again good news for unbelievers.
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Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD!
For what good is the day of the LORD to you?
It will be darkness, and not light.
It will be as though a man fled from a lion,
And a bear met him!
Or as though he went into the house,
Leaned his hand on the wall,
And a serpent bit him!
Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light?
Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it? Am 5:18–20
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Mickiel said:
God is too sure of himself to have children that he would later abort, Is.66:9...
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"Is 66:7–9 Here is another comparison with the human birth process (see 13:8), this time to teach two lessons: 1) no birth can come until labor pains have occurred (vv. 7, 8); and 2) when labor occurs, birth will surely follow (v. 9). Cf. Jer. 30:6, 7; Matt. 24:8; 1 Thess. 5:3. The point is that Israel’s suffering will end with a delivery! The Lord will not impose travail on the remnant without bringing them to the kingdom (v. 10)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1057). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Mickiel said:
...God is not going to give birth to trillions of humans, only to loose most of them...
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He won't be outdone by godless men. :dizzy: He's got plenty of loved ones (Re 7:9). :straight:
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Mickiel said:
...Galatians 2:4...Believers in God who are seriously unaware of this false hell doctrine, think that this bondage needs to be a part of the gospel.
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"Ga 2:4 false brethren. The Judaizers, who pretended to be true Christians. Yet, their doctrine, because it claimed allegiance to Christ, was opposed to traditional Judaism, and because it demanded circumcision and obedience to the Mosaic law as prerequisites for salvation, was opposed to Christianity. to spy out. This Gr. word pictures spies or traitors entering by stealth into an enemy’s camp. The Judaizers were Satan’s undercover agents sent into the midst of the church to sabotage the true gospel. liberty. Christians are free from the law as a means of salvation, from its external ceremonial regulations as a way of living, and from its curse for disobedience to the law—a curse that Christ bore for all believers (3:13). This freedom is not, however, a license to sin (5:13; Rom. 6:18; 1 Pet. 2:16). bondage. Conveys the idea of absolute slavery to an impossible system of works righteousness." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1790). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 
Mickiel

Mickiel

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A new fight has emerged on earth, the Christians pushing eternal hell punishing, and the true gospel that magnifies the unlimited mercy of God. Both are targeting men. Both concern the life of men. In Ps. 107:1, " O give thanks to the Lord, for he is Good; his Mercy endureth Forever!" This never ending Mercy of God cancels out the doctrine of everlasting merciless punishing that Christianity has passed out in millions of pamphlets and leaflets. Notice this commentary in Ps. 107:11-13, " Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contended the counsel of the most high, therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down and there was none to help. Then they cried unto the Lord in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distress."

God will save this whole world out of its distress, even though they have rebelled against him. God loves the world, in John 3:16, this is usually ignored, " For God SO LOVED THE WORLD!" Its right there in scripture, God Loves this world, SO much! And THAT is WHY he will save it!
 
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