Why would God need a hell?

[patrick jane]

Easy, you just make them. We have a will, no doubt about that, but its not free. A free will means we could make our choices, uninfluenced by any outside sources; there is no such thing as a human choice that was not influenced by anything. In Jer. 10:23, " O Lord, I know the way of man is NOT in himself; it is NOT in a man that walks to direct his steps." Free will is a Christian myth. Jesus said, " Not my will, by thine be done", even Jesus did not have free will, his will was to do his Fathers will. When he was about to die, he asked God to " Lift this cup from me", then he came to himself and said, never mind, not my will, but yours be done.

So Jesus said "never mind" Lord ?

 

[Lon]

In 1 Tim. 1:15 Jesus came into the world to save sinners, to snatch them out of the Christian hell.

:doh: You just admitted hell is real and gave a verse that Jesus came to snatch sinners from it.:hammer: How does your theology work

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need a hell? I actually think God has to protect certain people he wants to deal with now from Christianity. Christianity is a threat to salvation, in my view. In 1 Tim. 1:15 Jesus came into the world to save sinners, to snatch them out of the Christian hell. I think its the most condemning religion on earth, certainly the most powerful; and the most misleading; unfortunately the most influencial.

In 1 Tim.6:12, " Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life." I never thought that fight would degrade to the point that we would have to start defending people against Christianity's hell teaching, as they try to lay hold of unbelievers and ship them off to a pain amphlifier. The eternal life with God is important for unbelievers, we have to lay hold of it for them, because they are blind to it; we must fight for them. A good fight of faith in God.

In Rom. 3:3, " For what if some did not believe? Would their unbelief make the faith of God null and void? God forbid, NO!" Unbelievers are saved by God having faith in himself, that he loves them enough not to condemn them because of their unbelief. As Christianity infects this world with their limited view of salvation, we have to announce the real God; the God of all Grace.

 

[serpentdove]

Why would God need a hell?

It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Obey (Jn 15:15). :thumb:

 

[Mickiel]

So Jesus said "never mind" Lord ?

Yes, that is what he meant by, " Never the less"; in Mark 14:36, " Father, all things are possible with you; take away this cup from me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what you will." To paraphrase, Jesus started having second thoughts about dying, so he asked God if he would change that; but then in that same breath he simply changed his thoughts and submitted to God's will.

 

[Lon]

I am pleased with the attention the thread is receiving.

:think:

I am not shopping for fans.

So you are trolling? Against the forum rules. :wave:

 

[Mickiel]

:doh: You just admitted hell is real and gave a verse that Jesus came to snatch sinners from it.:hammer: How does your theology work

I have no theology to speak of, I like the theology I see in God's word; so I go from that.

 

[Mickiel]

:think:

So you are trolling? Against the forum rules. :wave:

If you desire to get me in trouble , at least use the truth. I started a thread, I post only on it, I do not post any wherelse on this site. I have not broken any forum rules; but if you hold a need to get rid of me, why not start a crusade and gather help to get me gone; I understand why you feel threatened.

 

[Ben Masada]

Its stunning to me that a Christian would think that Jesus did not die for everyone, simply stunning and very ugly. In Rom. 5:8, " But God commanded his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us." All are sinners, how can a Christian mind exclude other people from Christ death? Its mind boggling! Its bible 101.

It was not a Christian mind that excluded other people from the death of Jesus but the Jewish mind of the prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel when they said that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20)

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

It makes absolutely no sense to me. You know what you are doing to your mind, you are making room for eternal misery to be a thing God will allow to exist. You don't realize how long eternity is, and the raw implications of the real horror of eternal suffering would extract on a poor human. Your pinning insanity on God! It would be insane for God to punish me alive for just 1 million years; eternity would be trillions of years of madness without end. Good grief, can't you see that?

Lets take a simple form of punishing in example. Lets just say I am being punished, and the punishment is just a slap on the hand for five times. I could endure that. Now lets say you magnify this to a slap on the hand , every second for 3 days straight, now this simple thing becomes a horror! And now you decide I must endure this slap for ten whole years! I would go mad! I could not endure such merciless misery;

and you think the God of all grace will allow this insanity for eternity.

God help us all, we have been so duped by this arcane theology.

You are basing time on worldly definitions. Time beyond this universe is unfathomable to us. One moment in Hell may seem like all of eternity, whether is ceases to exist or not.

If God determined to create everlasting Souls and made every effort to save them, which He did, how could you begrudge Him?

 

[Lon]

If you desire to get me in trouble , at least use the truth. I started a thread, I post only on it, I do not post any wherelse on this site. I have not broken any forum rules; but if you hold a need to get rid of me, why not start a crusade and gather help to get me gone; I understand why you feel threatened.

Er, no. You admitted to 'trolling' which is against TOL rules. You ▲just▲explained what trolling is. TOL doesn't have a rule about single-issue preaching persay, but it does speak against trolling. The fact that you haven't posted anywhere else is part of that definition (in my mind).

 

[Lon]

You seem to have to demean others, and often do it in a sarcastic way that you seem to enjoy.

Like you get pleasure out of it.

Really strange that some people hold a need to do these things.

This wasn't the post you were talking about but:

Don't let him take the personal away from God. "He" is fine in reflecting personality, relationship, and our respect. Mickie doesn't understand English so doesn't understand why 'He' is appropriate. Leave 'her' in "its" misery and continue to attribute to God personality, relationship -"Our Father" Plain: the mickie-mouse newb), and respect "Hallowed be Thy Name." Mickie-mouse isn't concerned with scriptures, doesn't want to read them as he has said before, and doesn't apparently love our God, just demands that "He" (whom Mickie-mouse calls an "it") bow to Mickie's sovereign will Don't bow to it, Joseph. You can call God your Father without Mickie's permission. She/it's :dizzy::kookoo:

this one is a bit insulting. It wasn't primarily to insult you but to discredit your wrong-headed theology from dragging down the one you were talking to as if he didn't have a Heavenly Father when you ignorantly said God was not a 'He.' It wasn't your best material and you deserve a bit of ridicule for placing milestones around necks that are beyond ridiculous. This thread isn't even about that, let alone you being completely inept with possibility of ignorantly wicked for placing those kinds of inane milestones in the first place. This was and is, the only 'insult' post I've made, not to you, but concerning your wicked theology to another whose milestone you tried to place. Joseph deserves better than this kind of inane nose-ring from you. He can stand on his own, but this kind of thing is beyond acceptable.

 

[Mickiel]

Er, no. You admitted to 'trolling' which is against TOL rules. You ▲just▲explained what trolling is. TOL doesn't have a rule about single-issue preaching persay, but it does speak against trolling. The fact that you haven't posted anywhere else is part of that definition (in my mind).

Well in your mind, why not have them get rid of me? If you think I am a troll, get the site to get rid of me. Do they base their rules on how you think? If they do, then get rid of me.

 

[Mickiel]

this one is a bit insulting. .

A bit insulting? You are one of the most insulting persons I have met on this thread, and now you threaten me with being a troll, because you are intimidated by me. Now, I am not threatening you for insulting me, I don't need threats; I am secure in how I treat others, and the doctrines of others do not threaten me.

 

[Sherman]

Why would God need a hell? I actually think God has to protect certain people he wants to deal with now from Christianity. Christianity is a threat to salvation, in my view. In 1 Tim. 1:15 Jesus came into the world to save sinners, to snatch them out of the Christian hell. I think its the most condemning religion on earth, certainly the most powerful; and the most misleading; unfortunately the most influencial.

Mickiel, you need to get your head out of the sand. The bible is not a smorgasbord where you pick and choose what is true.
Revelation 21: 7-8

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


And another thing--you need to broaden the scope of your postings. False Doctrine One trick ponies run into in hot water here.

 

[Mickiel]

Mickiel, you need to get your head out of the sand. The bible is not a smorgasbord where you pick and choose what is true.
Revelation 21: 7-8

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I can only use scriptures that are there to pick, and I think a reader of the bible holds the right to pick any scripture that is there. And hope in it. And that is what I do. There is nothing wrong with picking fruit that is there to pick. Now that list of sin in Revelations 21: 7-8, explain to me which one cannot be forgiven? Which of those sins are greater than the forgiveness of God and Christ?

None of them.

As far as the second death, that is only the death of the first death, not the death of humans; humans are only sleep; we just call it death. I understand the salvation of all is not popular here; its popular nowhere. But I believe it and have so far cherry picked 180 scriptures and shown them in this thread; and plan to pick a lot more.

Greetings to you.

 

[Mickiel]

[

And another thing--you need to broaden the scope of your postings. False Doctrine One trick ponies run into in hot water here.

The salvation of all is not a false doctrine, its just not a Christian doctrine. And Christianity has not cornered the market on doctrine.

As far as me being in hot water, I am used to it ; I live in it. The gospel of the salvation of all is hated by men ; men have fell in love with hell. That is what they want to hear.

 

[Apple7]

:doh: You just admitted hell is real and gave a verse that Jesus came to snatch sinners from it.:hammer: How does your theology work

Lon,

This guy has no idea what he is even doing...

 

[Apple7]

In this thread, at times I give more than my view; the rage against hell is rising among the masses, many are starting to see it for what it really is;

Its absurd!

Link removed


You're here to sell us your book?

Link dropping is against the rules...a ban for sure...

 

[KingdomRose]

It was not a Christian mind that excluded other people from the death of Jesus but the Jewish mind of the prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel when they said that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20)

You STILL cling to that feeble argument when it has been brought to your attention many times that those scriptures refer to imperfect humans. Jesus Christ was not imperfect. He was perfect and without sin. Therefore, he was the perfect candidate for balancing the action of "the first Adam," who plunged mankind into sin and death because of his disobedience.

The first Adam (an originally perfect man) and his disobedience is balanced on the scale of justice by the "last Adam, Jesus" (also a perfect man). This explains it all:

"Death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam [deliberately], who is a type of him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one [Adam] the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned [Adam]; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

"For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in LIFE through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

"For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:14-19, NASB)


And finally, to sum it up:

"A legal principle in God's Law is involved. 'Life should be given for life.' (Exodus 21:23; Deut.19:21) By his disobedience the perfect man Adam lost perfect life on a paradise earth for himself and all his children. Jesus Christ gave his own perfect life to buy back what Adam lost. Jesus 'gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.' (I Timothy 2:5,6) Because he was a perfect man, even as Adam had been, Jesus is called 'the last Adam.' (I Corinthians 15:45)

"No other human besides Jesus could have provided the ransom. This is because Jesus is the only man who ever lived that was equal to Adam as a perfect son of God. (Psalm 49:7; Luke 1:32; 3:38)"

(You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, p.62,63)