Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

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Lon,

This guy has no idea what he is even doing...

The ideal is the salvation of all of humanity, an idea of God and Christ, and there is no better gospel of truth possible. The best news for humanity, is their salvation; it is a faithful Idea that Jesus came into this world to save sinners, 1 Tim. 1:15; all have sinned so all need salvation, and I believe Jesus has met the needs of all. In 1 Tim. 2:3-4, this idea of universal salvation is acceptable to God, good and acceptable, and God would have ALL of humanity saved and come to the knowledge of truth.

Just because Christians don't believe it, does not hamper my view of it.
 

Mickiel

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You're here to sell us your book?

Link dropping is against the rules...a ban for sure...



I don't have a book, and threats of being banned are part of what I constantly face from Christianity. I been banned before , and it has never bothered me , nor stopped me from telling this good news.
 

KingdomRose

New member
You are basing time on worldly definitions. Time beyond this universe is unfathomable to us. One moment in Hell may seem like all of eternity, whether is ceases to exist or not.

If God determined to create everlasting Souls and made every effort to save them, which He did, how could you begrudge Him?

Where is the scriptural evidence that God "created everlasting souls"? That belief seems to be negated by Ezekiel and also the apostle Paul.

"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins WILL DIE." (Ezekiel 18:4, NASB) So...the soul CAN die. It is not immortal.

"[Jesus Christ] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16, NASB)
 

Apple7

New member
I don't have a book, and threats of being banned are part of what I constantly face from Christianity. I been banned before , and it has never bothered me , nor stopped me from telling this good news.

Then don't be surprised....
 

Mickiel

New member
In 1 Thess. 5:9, " For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Salvation is an appointment God made for all of humanity, not just those who believe. Hell would be a place of wrath and God has not appointed humans to wrath; he loves us too much to see us suffer such a hateful thing. In verse 10, " He died for us, that whether we are dead or alive, we should live together with him."

God WANTS us all to be with him, together with him, and he KNEW how to get that done. God knows what he is doing. Men just don't know.
 

Sherman

I identify as a Christian
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God is not a he or a she, he is not human with a gender, more closer to an " It." God is a being, and we just don't know enough about him as of yet. And yes, he does not need a hell, it is a man made thing, it is human to condemn someone for eternity.


Before you make too many more posts read the board rules---> here

This post of yours is blasphemous. I am going to let you slide this time because you are a newbie.
 

Mickiel

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Before you make too many more posts read the board rules---> here

This post of yours is blasphemous. I am going to let you slide this time because you are a newbie.



No need to let me slide, do whatever you are led to do, I'll be fine. I was saying that God is not human, the poster listed he/she/it, I simply choose from his list what I think best describes what God is. I think God is a being, a Spirit being; and I don't rightfully know just how to describe him. I don't know how he looks, I don't fully understand him; I don't know what God is, but I wholeheartly believe in him.

I am not asking for breaks here, if you want to ban me, then so be it. I have broken no rules, but I refuse to be threatened for infantile reasons.
 

Sherman

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You don't like the rules, you can post someplace else. The staff here have little time for people who refuse to abide by the board rules.
 

Mickiel

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You don't like the rules, you can post someplace else. The staff here have little time for people who refuse to abide by the board rules.

I have said absolutely nothing about the rules, and I have not broken any. Why you are taking the time to chasetise me for nothing, I am not sure. I have an idea.

but I don't like being threatened.
 

Sherman

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If you cannot understand how dropping a link to your book or calling God an 'it' breaks the rules, you are a whole new kind of stupid.
 

Mickiel

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If you cannot understand how dropping a link to your book or calling God an 'it' breaks the rules, you are a whole new kind of stupid.



I don't have a book , and have no plans on writing one. And I did not call God an it, I said that the poster described God as three possible things, he/she/it, I simply said he would be CLOSER to an it, meaning he is, but he is something unknown.

And I don't like being called stupid, no need to resort to insulting me.
 

Sherman

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You are behaving like someone that is not very bright. Read the rules before you make too many more posts, and don't drop any more links to idiot theology book sites. This is a right wing Christian board. Universalism does not qualify--sorry.

There's one thing your should know about TOL--we call it like it is. Universalism is crap. Be ready to take a lot of flak.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Standards for open critical discussion......

Standards for open critical discussion......

Before you make too many more posts read the board rules---> here

This post of yours is blasphemous. I am going to let you slide this time because you are a newbie.

Ah, 'blasphemy' can apparently be subjectively assumed or defined beyond some some general assumption of it. How is it blasphemous?

Mickiel wrote:

God is not a he or a she, he is not human with a gender, more closer to an " It." God is a being, and we just don't know enough about him as of yet. And yes, he does not need a hell, it is a man made thing, it is human to condemn someone for eternity.

Can referring to God as an "It" be blasphemous? While it seems to be de-personalizing 'God',....it may not be blasphemous in the context implied by the poster. There are aspects of 'God' that transcend 'personality', as 'God' is an infinite omnipresent 'being' or 'reality',...in this sense the poster is referring to aspects of God's nature that elude our ability to conceive or understand. In this sense,..."IT" or God as some great cosmic 'Is-ness' (a timeless, infinite energy, or spirit-presence, sustainer of all that is) is not necessarily 'blasphemous'.

Note that JosephR referred to 'God' as 'He/She/It', and I have done so in other places in the past, such referring to 'Deity' as that which includes all gender as well as transcending any human concept of 'gender' or 'personality'. 'God' surely includes all these facets, but transcends any definition we can give to Deity. On a more personal level I sometimes refer to 'God' as 'Father-Mother-God'...this is a more personal intimate title of course. But there are non-personal aspects to Deity as well, IMO.

As far as contesting 'eternal hellfire' or ECT, I've done that elsewhere, because this is an open discussion forum, we are allowed to debate the points and propositions presented in a theological context, or philosophically as is my usual custom. Note my blog-post on ECT here, includes a post to you on ECT (see last comment), do I get banned for that? Did you read that?

Mickiel writes:

And yes, he does not need a hell, it is a man made thing, it is human to condemn someone for eternity.

As to this portion of Mickiel's post,...is this blasphemous? We've been challenging the traditional concept of 'hell' thr-out the entire thread, which is its purpose, and elsewhere. What is being contested is the various conceptions and 'beliefs' about 'hell', and ECT (eternal conscious torment). On moral, philosophical grounds alone, as to the principles of justice and mercy....this concept of 'eternal punishment' can be questioned, hence our various points about it. I think its well within the scope of the thread to discuss or question concepts about 'hell'.

By what criteria or standards do you rule anything 'blasphemous' since any honest questioning of traditional beliefs or definitions seems to come near that 'fine line' of controversy, where one ventures into some zone of potential blasphemy, so how can we properly discuss a subject without going into the 'pro's and 'cons' of it? This micro-managing and over-lording of moderating maybe stifling and limiting discussion, rather than enhancing constructive criticisms and expanding of consciousness which is advantageous to all.
 

Sherman

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Freelight, you are posting to someone who does not accept gnostic slurry either.
 

Mickiel

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You are behaving like someone that is not very bright. Read the rules before you make too many more posts, and don't drop any more links to idiot theology book sites. This is a right wing Christian board. Universalism does not qualify--sorry.

There's one thing your should know about TOL--we call it like it is. Universalism is crap. Be ready to take a lot of flak.



I don't mind flack, but being called stupid and my behavior called not too bright , is disrespectful in my view; I don't call people names. And I believe in universal salvation, if that is not allowed here, then let me know and I will be on my way. And I can keep my links to myself. I did not know it was not allowed to post links.
 

Mickiel

New member
Ah, 'blasphemy' can apparently be subjectively assumed or defined beyond some some general assumption of it. How is it blasphemous?



Can referring to God as an "It" be blasphemous? While it seems to be de-personalizing 'God',....it may not be blasphemous in the context implied by the poster. There are aspects of 'God' that transcend 'personality', as 'God' is an infinite omnipresent 'being' or 'reality',...in this sense the poster is referring to aspects of God's nature that elude our ability to conceive or understand. In this sense,..."IT" or God as some great cosmic 'Is-ness' (a timeless, infinite energy, or spirit-presence, sustainer of all that is) is not necessarily 'blasphemous'.

Note that JosephR referred to 'God' as 'He/She/It', and I have done so in other places in the past, such referring to 'Deity' as that which includes all gender as well as transcending any human concept of 'gender' or 'personality'. 'God' surely includes all these facets, but transcends any definition we can give to Deity. On a more personal level I sometimes refer to 'God' as 'Father-Mother-God'...this is a more personal intimate title of course. But there are non-personal aspects to Deity as well, IMO.

As far as contesting 'eternal hellfire' or ECT, I've done that elsewhere, because this is an open discussion forum, we are allowed to debate the points and propositions presented in a theological context, or philosophically as is my usual custom. Note my blog-post on ECT here, includes a post to you on ECT (see last comment), do I get banned for that? Did you read that?



As to this portion of Mickiel's post,...is this blasphemous? We've been challenging the traditional concept of 'hell' thr-out the entire thread, which is its purpose, and elsewhere. What is being contested is the various conceptions and 'beliefs' about 'hell', and ECT (eternal conscious torment). On moral, philosophical grounds alone, as to the principles of justice and mercy....this concept of 'eternal punishment' can be questioned, hence our various points about it. I think its well within the scope of the thread to discuss or question concepts about 'hell'.

By what criteria or standards do you rule anything 'blasphemous' since any honest questioning of traditional beliefs or definitions seems to come near that 'fine line' of controversy, where one ventures into some zone of potential blasphemy, so how can we properly discuss a subject without going into the 'pro's and 'cons' of it? This micro-managing and over-lording of moderating maybe stifling and limiting discussion, rather than enhancing constructive criticisms and expanding of consciousness which is advantageous to all.



Its obvious they don't want me here, but I understand why; don't worry about it.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Open honest discussion here on rules...........

Open honest discussion here on rules...........

Freelight, you are posting to someone who does not accept gnostic slurry either.

Hi Sherman,

I addressed the issue honestly and seriously about proper moderating and the freedom of speech and allowances on this site. Also on what constitutes 'blasphemy', the criteria involved. If you'd like to read and address my actual post, you have that opportunity.

Also, I've brought up to Knight about posting links that are appropriate and related to the subject of any discussion, and such are allowed as long as they are not linking to another discussion group/forum or are pornographic or inappropriate. I've been sharing pertinent resource links for years here. I don't see a problem with it, as long as its not too excessive and properly on the subject-matter, since these extra resources may enhance, inform and enlighten the discussion. I recommend a change or redefining of this rule in the TOL rules list, since resource links have their place.
 
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