do you have one?
Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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do you have one?
Mickiel
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Oh I can see his point, I just don't agree with it. Humanity is not responsible for their sins, the case was built before we were born and the deck was stacked for human failure; and that is exactly what has occurred. We did not stand a chance , sin was going to rein. The devil did his thing, and none of us could stop him, the complete failure of mankind created the NEED for Christ to come. That's WHY God did not help Adam, he wanted Adam to fail, so he could send Christ. And then hold Christ responsible for the sins of mankind, and that set us all free.
JosephR
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not one that you will care to examine, it might question your invested beliefs...
you don't know what you are talking about
thanks for protecting me
JosephR
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Mickiel
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Easy, you just make them. We have a will, no doubt about that, but its not free. A free will means we could make our choices, uninfluenced by any outside sources; there is no such thing as a human choice that was not influenced by anything. In Jer. 10:23, " O Lord, I know the way of man is NOT in himself; it is NOT in a man that walks to direct his steps." Free will is a Christian myth. Jesus said, " Not my will, by thine be done", even Jesus did not have free will, his will was to do his Fathers will. When he was about to die, he asked God to " Lift this cup from me", then he came to himself and said, never mind, not my will, but yours be done.
Mickiel
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I can only give you the scriptures; 1 Tim. 2:6, Jesus gave himself a " Ransom for All.' That means he took the responsibility and paid the sum total price for all sin.
Jamie Gigliotti
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It would make sense if we are fully eternal beings destined to reside in one of two eternal locations.
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Lon
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Or without Christ, deserving of it. I believe without Christ, you and I do not deserve to be with God. It is only grace and compassion that would redeem us.
:nono: Paradise, the Bosum of Abraham, does NOT mean stomach nor does it exist today. When Jesus preached to the captives, they were brought from there, so today, to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord, or to wind up in hades with the rich young ruler for all who don't believe, which will be thrown in the Lake of Fire. Why 'wouldn't' Jesus have taught literally about a place that literally exists? He wasn't in the habit of making stuff up. This wasn't a parable like any other, it contained real people like Abraham and so Lazarus and the Rich ruler shouldn't be thought of as nonexistent.
Um, Ben is a Jew. :doh: Maybe you should pay attention to a "Jew" who believes hell is real? :think:
I can tell you don't read your Bible, Micki. You are too busy spending time on your pet project to actually be spending time with God, reading His word. Ben gave you Ezekiel (the book, not just the verse). While Ben is missing his own Messiah, we may agree on a few scriptural points here that is worth you taking note of. In Ezekiel 8-10, the messenger ran through Jerusalem and marked those who were repentant and the men with swords slaughtered the rest of those who deserved it. The message is that they all deserved it. Only those forgiven were not condemned.
If a Universalist wrote the Bible, there would only be one sentence on a plaque: "Don't worry about it." There is no need for a Universalist to own a bible (and you certainly don't read it anyway).
You mean the Bible? :think: Read Ezekiel yet?
Mickiel
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It makes absolutely no sense to me. You know what you are doing to your mind, you are making room for eternal misery to be a thing God will allow to exist. You don't realize how long eternity is, and the raw implications of the real horror of eternal suffering would extract on a poor human. Your pinning insanity on God! It would be insane for God to punish me alive for just 1 million years; eternity would be trillions of years of madness without end. Good grief, can't you see that?
Lets take a simple form of punishing in example. Lets just say I am being punished, and the punishment is just a slap on the hand for five times. I could endure that. Now lets say you magnify this to a slap on the hand , every second for 3 days straight, now this simple thing becomes a horror! And now you decide I must endure this slap for ten whole years! I would go mad! I could not endure such merciless misery;
and you think the God of all grace will allow this insanity for eternity.
God help us all, we have been so duped by this arcane theology.
Mickiel
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The best way for Jesus to save humanity, is to be responsible for us, the best way for Christianity to shop their theology of hell, is to make man responsible for their own sins; that way they can condemn more.
Lon
Well-known member
Don't let him take the personal away from God. "He" is fine in reflecting personality, relationship, and our respect. Mickie doesn't understand English so doesn't understand why 'He' is appropriate. Leave 'her' in "its" misery and continue to attribute to God personality, relationship -"Our Father"
Plain: the mickie-mouse newb), and respect "Hallowed be Thy Name." Mickie-mouse isn't concerned with scriptures, doesn't want to read them as he has said before, and doesn't apparently love our God, just demands that "He" (whom Mickie-mouse calls an "it") bow to Mickie's sovereign will Don't bow to it, Joseph. You can call God your Father without Mickie's permission. She/it's :dizzy::kookoo:
Mickiel
New member
I think its interesting how you and Apple7 spend a lot of time personally insulting people. You say I don't read the bible or spend time with God; I find that judgmental and insulting, but its a common tactic in your conversations. You seem to have to demean others, and often do it in a sarcastic way that you seem to enjoy.
Like you get pleasure out of it.
Really strange that some people hold a need to do these things.
Lon
Well-known member
Well, your attack on free will, will leave you fairly marked as an extreme cultist to be ignored, by Arminians and Calvinists.
Mickiel
New member
Why would God need a hell? I actually think God has to protect certain people he wants to deal with now from Christianity. Christianity is a threat to salvation, in my view. In 1 Tim. 1:15 Jesus came into the world to save sinners, to snatch them out of the Christian hell. I think its the most condemning religion on earth, certainly the most powerful; and the most misleading; unfortunately the most influencial.
Lon
Well-known member
If you ever say this again, back it up. Where? Show me. :nono: You aren't a bright man. You have made this false accusation of me twice. I fully expect you to be noncompliant here as well.
Er, that's not a personal insult. It is an accusation because you said you 'would not' read the bible that way. You did. You said that. Correct whatever mistake you made in that post, but until then, you said you'd not read your bible like I read mine and all I did was demonstrate 'reading it' like I would in any English class, for context.
:nono: I HATE that you didn't read Ezekiel when a Jew told you to. I hate that you didn't read it again when I told you to.
Be happy I didn't say what my flesh thought to say (it deserves hell). I am trying to 'reach' you. I am stomping the old-man down and getting help from Christ. If you think I'm demeaning you, it is only for what you've shown in thread to be willful ignorance and negligence (for instance, I know you have not read Ezekiel since being asked. I'm positive).
Well, 'enjoy' 'get pleasure out of' is the same thing so you are just rambling and repeating yourself aimlessly now.
Talk about your wild accusations :think:
No, seriously --> :think: And read Ezekiel. A LOT of this thread would go a LOT smoother if you just read the scriptures you were asked to read. :sigh: I will 'badger' you into doing so, with no apology. Jesus has the "words of life, where else can we go?" <-- Scripture
Let's let God define Himself instead of you trying to take on that enormous job beyond your pay-grade, shall we?
You just need some of freelight's teachings
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