Why would God need a hell?

[Ben Masada]

Why would God need a hell? No flesh needs to be in such a place. Jesus is TOO protective to allow any humans to be dammed to such a fate. He is over ALL of us! See that in Romans 9:5, Jesus is over ALL! I keep showing you that biblical message of All; read it over and over again. The bible keeps repeating it because its important to you.

Michiel, when you say above that Jesus was too protective to allow any human to be damned to hell, was it the reason why Jesus mentioned in his parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus that to escape hell-fire one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Ben Masada]

Its stunning to me that a Christian would think that Jesus did not die for everyone, simply stunning and very ugly. In Rom. 5:8, " But God commanded his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us." All are sinners, how can a Christian mind exclude other people from Christ death? Its mind boggling! Its bible 101.

Probably because he or she must have finally understood that Prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel were indeed inspired by the Lord to teach us that no one can die for the sins of another but that the one who sins shall die. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

 

[Mickiel]

Michiel, when you say above that Jesus was too protective to allow any human to be damned to hell, was it the reason why Jesus mentioned in his parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus that to escape hell-fire one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)

Greetings,

Its a long explanation, the answer is best summed up here;

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellArticles/RichManParable.htm

It is a serious mistake to search the scriptures for the damnation of men, better to search it for the life of men. Its there, one can find it.

 

[Ben Masada]

Greetings,

Its a long explanation, the answer is best summed up here;

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellArticles/RichManParable.htm

It is a serious mistake to search the scriptures for the damnation of men, better to search it for the life of men. Its there, one can find it.

Thanks but, I would appreciate more to read from your "long explanation."

 

[Mickiel]

Thanks but, I would appreciate more to read from your "long explanation."

It was a symbolic parable, never meant to be taken literal; and the parable itself has to be dissected in order to see the correct symbolism. There was no hell in the parable, no eternal suffering, but if one takes it literally, they can make a case for eternal hell. And Christianity takes it literal, because they are making a case for hell; they are conceited with their salvation. If you take the parable literally, then the bossom of Abraham would be his stomach, and people in this hell could communicate with people in heaven; could literally see them.

The parable is made fodder for the Christian hell because they are just shopping for ways to limit God's Kingdom.

 

[Mickiel]

In John 12:32 Jesus makes a universal prophecy; " If I be lifted up from the earth, I will " Draw" ALL men unto me." Firstly, the word " Draw" here is the Greek " Helkuo", which means " To Drag!" I have said before that God will force ALL of humanity to him, and the book of Revelations is full of that force. Christians are hung up on this salvation clause of unbelievers " Accepting Christ', or they don't qualify; in that last great day, which is the real day of salvation, ALL humans will be forced to accept Christ, there will be no free will choice. God is NOT passive with his salvation, he will be aggressive when it comes to the eternal future of all of us. Jesus is not conceited with his sacrifice , most Christians are. Universal salvation fits God like a glove.

Jesus will pull ALL of humanity with him. Oh how the bible keeps using that term " All!" Eternal emphasis is being continually placed on it; for us to notice! Notice John 6:44, " NO man can come to me, except the Father who sent me DRAW him, and I will raise him up that last day", that last day is the day of salvation for most of humanity. There is NO free will here, even if believers wanted to come to Christ, they cannot unless God moves first! God has to draw you, that is the Christ spoken biblical order. There is no " Open door to the real church", you have to be invited.

And Jesus got lifted up, so our destiny is to all be invited, and if some of us refuse, they will be " Dragged!" This is how salvation really is, and its going to be!

 

[Mickiel]

In this thread, at times I give more than my view; the rage against hell is rising among the masses, many are starting to see it for what it really is;

Its absurd!

Link removed--Please do not link drop.

 

[Ben Masada]

In John 12:32 Jesus makes a universal prophecy; " If I be lifted up from the earth, I will " Draw" ALL men unto me." Firstly, the word " Draw" here is the Greek " Helkuo", which means " To Drag!" I have said before that God will force ALL of humanity to him, and the book of Revelations is full of that force. Christians are hung up on this salvation clause of unbelievers " Accepting Christ', or they don't qualify; in that last great day, which is the real day of salvation, ALL humans will be forced to accept Christ, there will be no free will choice. God is NOT passive with his salvation, he will be aggressive when it comes to the eternal future of all of us. Jesus is not conceited with his sacrifice , most Christians are. Universal salvation fits God like a glove.

Jesus will pull ALL of humanity with him. Oh how the bible keeps using that term " All!" Eternal emphasis is being continually placed on it; for us to notice! Notice John 6:44, " NO man can come to me, except the Father who sent me DRAW him, and I will raise him up that last day", that last day is the day of salvation for most of humanity. There is NO free will here, even if believers wanted to come to Christ, they cannot unless God moves first! God has to draw you, that is the Christ spoken biblical order. There is no " Open door to the real church", you have to be invited.

And Jesus got lifted up, so our destiny is to all be invited, and if some of us refuse, they will be " Dragged!" This is how salvation really is, and its going to be!

Jesus could have never said that he would draw all men unto him because he was a Jew and all those men drawn unto him would all be Jewish. Probably the Hellenist former disciple of Paul who wrote that gospel was the one who mentioned those words.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus could have never said that he would draw all men unto him because he was a Jew and all those men drawn unto him would all be Jewish. Probably the Hellenist former disciple of Paul who wrote that gospel was the one who mentioned those words.

Oh no, it was Jesus who said it, and it had absolutely nothing to do with Jews or any other race; he said he would draw ALL MEN, simply meaning everyone. There is no tunnel vision on the term " All."

 

[JosephR]

when you speak of g-d... the Creator... he/it/she does not need a hell or a heaven.... these are man made things...the Creator of reality does not needs concepts humans make up..

I hope this helps

 

[chrysostom]

when you speak of g-d... the Creator... he/it/she does not need a hell or a heaven.... these are man made things...the Creator of reality does not needs concepts humans make up..

I hope this helps

it doesn't
what made you think it would?
is your stuff not man made?
how would we tell?

 

[Mickiel]

I understand that many people who are talking about the subject of religion and the bible, the Koran and other books and various religions, seem to be stuck on a pattern that excludes all of humanity from the benefits of their view, I call it " Short sighted salvation", or limited atonement. Its actually become a tradition to section off the after life to only certain people. And people actually think God endorses this kind of pathology. This trimming down of the world population in eternity is frightening in how it has caught fire in the human consciousness. And religion is the main mouth of it.

In John 6:51, again Jesus;" I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever; and that bread that I GIVE is my flesh, which I GIVE for the LIFE OF THE WORLD!" Eternal life is a giving for the WORLD! A gift for everyone. So what does religion do with this mass gift, their running around teaching its NOT for everyone, just the opposite of this great future.

Like a selfish child not willing to share its candy , religion is loop holing the gift of God and trying to manage salvation for themselves; not giving as Christ has gave.

 

[Mickiel]

when you speak of g-d... the Creator... he/it/she does not need a hell or a heaven.... these are man made things...the Creator of reality does not needs concepts humans make up..

I hope this helps

God is not a he or a she, he is not human with a gender, more closer to an " It." God is a being, and we just don't know enough about him as of yet. And yes, he does not need a hell, it is a man made thing, it is human to condemn someone for eternity.

 

[JosephR]

if there is a creator , and I think there is, the only thing I am sure of is this.."IT" is looking for people "IT" can trust... many scriptures tell this... a man after His own heart,,,seek the truth.... pray with out ceasing,, this means thought in line with g-d.....reality is being one with g-d...

 

[chrysostom]

I understand that many people who are talking about the subject of religion and the bible, the Koran and other books and various religions, seem to be stuck on a pattern that excludes all of humanity from the benefits of their view, I call it " Short sighted salvation", or limited atonement.


So what does religion do with this mass gift, their running around teaching its NOT for everyone, just the opposite of this great future.

religion has preserved
the word of God
and
the history of God

you can't hold religion responsible for what some men have done to it

 

[Mickiel]

Christianity is teaching this free will accepting of Christ, Jesus taught no such thing. In John 6:65, again Jesus, "Therefore I say unto you, that NO man can come to me, except it be GIVEN unto him of my Father." God controls who believes and who accepts Christ, its NOT a free will choice. Notice John 3:27, " A man can receive nothing except it be GIVEN him from heaven." You can't receive Christ unless God wants you to, bottom line. In Christ we live, move and have our being, God controls the complete cycle of life.

 

[chrysostom]

Christianity is teaching this free will accepting of Christ, Jesus taught no such thing. In John 6:65, again Jesus, "Therefore I say unto you, that NO man can come to me, except it be GIVEN unto him of my Father." God controls who believes and who accepts Christ, its NOT a free will choice. Notice John 3:27, " A man can receive nothing except it be GIVEN him from heaven." You can't receive Christ unless God wants you to, bottom line. In Christ we live, move and have our being, God controls the complete cycle of life.

lucky we have religion telling us
that
we have free will
and
we will be held responsible for our choices

 

[JosephR]

Christianity is teaching this free will accepting of Christ, Jesus taught no such thing. In John 6:65, again Jesus, "Therefore I say unto you, that NO man can come to me, except it be GIVEN unto him of my Father." God controls who believes and who accepts Christ, its NOT a free will choice. Notice John 3:27, " A man can receive nothing except it be GIVEN him from heaven." You can't receive Christ unless God wants you to, bottom line. In Christ we live, move and have our being, God controls the complete cycle of life.

this is the classic case of martin luthur vs the RCC


chys will not see your point neither will u see his...

 

[Mickiel]

religion has preserved
the word of God
and
the history of God

you can't hold religion responsible for what some men have done to it

I do hold religion responsible, in my view it has perverted the word of God, while it has preserved it. Religion has perverted the history of God; men are religion, and religion is men; no separation, no evading responsibility. I don't think all people in religion are a perversion, no, many of them mean well, but they allow religion to guide them.

 

[chrysostom]

I do hold religion responsible, in my view it has perverted the word of God, while it has preserved it. Religion has perverted the history of God; men are religion, and religion is men; no separation, no evading responsibility. I don't think all people in religion are a perversion, no, many of them mean well, but they allow religion to guide them.

how do you make these choices
if
you don't have free will?