Greg Jennings
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Which book of the Bible are they found in?
I know there is one in the Quran, but I don't believe there is one in the Bible. Am I wrong?
Why would God need a hell?
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Which book of the Bible are they found in?
I know there is one in the Quran, but I don't believe there is one in the Bible. Am I wrong?
And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18 NKJV)
Apple7
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As we know, the authors of the Koran can only copy previous Biblical material, so, if its in the Koran, then it must be in the Holy Bible.
The Book of Revelation makes mention of the fall of Satan several times. Here is an elementary example showing that The Son (God) has the power to cast Satan from Heaven...
And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world, was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night. (Rev 12.7 - 10)
A simple reading of this passage from Rev 12 clearly informs the reader that the war in Heaven occurred between Michael and his angels & Satan and his angels – but, it was Jesus (God) that cast Satan from Heaven.
Greg Jennings
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I suppose, but that's not a reference to the story of Lucipher's fall. It's within a passage where Jesus is instructing his disciples and giving them power over demons.
The story of Lucipher's fall is a bit more important
Greg Jennings
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Moved
Prizebeatz1
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Hell to me is "perceived" separation. I learned all this once I touched the infinite and eternal part of myself. I used to be a Catholic but then had a spiritual awakening. I now realize every single one of my beliefs had the opposite effect of what I thought. They kept me identified with my personality. I was trapped in this identity of who I took myself to be. My true identity is the soul which is meant to be experienced while we are alive to further enhance the truth of the scriptures.
Apple7
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The authors of the Koran always refer the reader BACK to its source, i.e. the Holy Bible, for the fully story.
Greg Jennings
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I guess you could argue that Lucipher's fall was elaborated on in the Quran from an original few lines in Revelations, but there is far more detail and information in the Muslim version. It's a story that is often told in Christian Sunday schools, yet strangely enough isn't from the Christian bible.
It's the story of how Lucipher was one of the great angels and a treasured disciple of God, but his jealousy and desire for power led him to wage war against God in an attempt to usurp him. He was defeated, of course, and his punishment was to be cast out of Heaven and he became Satan, the Prince of Darkness, forever trying to lead people astray from God as a way of taking his revenge upon God
Greg Jennings
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Then why is the Quran story so much more detailed? And why is it the one referenced in storytelling?
Apple7
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The Koran is NOT more detailed, as it merely paraphrases Biblical material and sets it to rhyme.
Time to rub that Genie...
Greg Jennings
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I changed my mind. "The Great Dragon" is good enough
Apple7
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Rather than paraphrasing.....actually show us the passage from the Koran.
Mickiel
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The so called suffering in the Christian hell is said to be forever, they are stealing this eternal language from the bible and misdirecting it. The eternal language of God deals with everlasting Mercy; in Psalms 89:2, " For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever!" The Mercy of God is eternal and that reveals that the Christian hell is a biblical trick , designed to cast humans out and fear in.
Greg Jennings
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I still can if you like, but see my above post
Apple7
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Apple7
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Are you willing to take that chance?
Greg Jennings
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Well....no.....it's Lucipher. Allah would be Allah
Apple7
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Show us the Koranic passage.
Mickiel
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In the coming future ALL the ends of the earth will literally see the Salvation of the Lord, Ps. 98:3, and when they are allowed to see it, God will remember his Mercy and pardon all of their sins. This is good news for unbelievers who are turned off by the churches of this world.
Apple7
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اللَّهُ = “allah”
“allah” definition:
Written with the disjunctive alif, meaning God, i.e. the only true god, according to the most correct of the opinions respecting it. It is a proper name to the Being who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all of the attributes of perfection; a proper name denoting the true god (TA), comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all of the essences of existing things; the “al” being inseparable from it; not derived. It comes from the root “ilaha”, which means he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 82 - 83
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 28 - 29
The implications…
• Observe the revealing definition for “allah”, that is given by Lane...“i.e. the only true god”
• Lane is referencing a very specific example in his definition by his illustrated example (i.e.)
• It is abundantly clear that he is referencing a “god” (lower case) to represent the “allah” of the Koran
• To re-enforce the fact that the “allah” of the Koran is no more than a “god”, and to erase any notion of error, Lane repeats his very same remarks a few lines farther down in his lexical definition for “allah”, by referencing a separate entry – this time from the legendary “Ta’j el-‘Aroos” (TA)
• (TA “a proper name denoting the true god, comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all the essence of existing things”
• Further, “allah” is derived from the root “ilaha”, which means “he was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course”
• This would hardly seem a logical definition for true deity
• “ilaha” also means “an object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him who takes it as such”…which signifies idolatry as mentioned in Revelation
• “ilaha” also signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon
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