popsthebuilder
New member
Beautiful.
It is unfortunate that so very many have been swayed by men. (Not St. Paul)
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Why Trust Paul?
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It is unfortunate that so very many have been swayed by men. (Not St. Paul)
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popsthebuilder
New member
So you believe one being made righteous or holy is made holy indeed? Or do you believe Christ will reside with what is detestable?
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popsthebuilder
New member
Do you understand that the Lord is the eternal Spirit and not the temporal vessel or Holy Temple?
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drbrumley
Well-known member
HUH?
Muhammad? [emoji4]
Pops is a Muslim who denies that Jesus is both fully man and fully God.
popsthebuilder
New member
popsthebuilder
New member
You've got serious issues homey.
I am not a Muslim. Everyone here who participates in thoelogical or religious discussion knows I believe the Quran and Bible to be inspired by GOD. That doesn't make one a Muslim.
Now show me where Jesus tells us we must believe He is fully a temporal material man and fully GOD almighty in the flesh in order to be written in the book of life.
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Think of it like this: If there were no Jews (Or Christians- who accepted the Jewish tradition regarding the scriptures), would anybody pay attention to the Hebrew Bible? Would anybody read it and say "wow, this is clearly True!"?
It's not the Hebrew Bible. It's God sharing who He is with humans. Since God chose to share through various persons within Israel, the writings were kept there. God could have chosen any person to have write His words to humans.
I'm thankful God has kept His word for us to read. I'm glad he used scribes to copy it over the milleniums.
If there were only purple humans, God would have used them and God's elect would pay attention.
What is true is that not all Israel is Israel.
So...the vast number of Jewish atheists can influence the community and the traditions going forward?
Also, which tradition is the correct tradition? Is it the secular Jewish tradition, the conservative Jewish tradition, the orthodox Jewish tradition, the hassidic Jewish tradition, the Jews for Jesus Jewish tradition, the ultra-orthodox Jewish tradition? Which one? Which community?
popsthebuilder
New member
Yes....you are speaking to such a person....or rather, I am speaking to you.
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There is no such things a a "secular Jewish tradition". I don't know why you separate 'orthodox' from Hassidic or "ultra orthodox" in this matter. Jews for Jesus?- Well, ask them.
There is nothing intrinsic in the Bible to make one think it is true or authoritative, without the traditions of a community.
Edit: To clarify- this means that there is no way to prove to someone outside the community that the book has value.
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I lost you here.
popsthebuilder
New member
Sorry for being indescript. What I meant was yes there would be people who believe the Bible without being persuaded towards such by man.
peace
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oatmeal
Well-known member
A good study on the book of Acts:
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
Paul has indeed been misused and abused...from the beginning false witnesses accused him of preaching against the OT...a false witness carried on by christendom...
Indeed, to the one who is perishing, the message is foolishness. This holds true for Jews and Gentiles.
God will either give spiritual life to the person or he will leave them to die in their sins. He is under no obligation to remove the stumbling blocks of sin brought by the individual, the community or tradition. Their sin condemns them. There is no hope for the hopeless.
But God may choose to graciously reach in and redeem sinners and pardon them.
By what means would God then choose to reveal himself to men? How would he ensure the message was kept for all generations. How would he choose who would have their eyes opened to the message and who would remain dead in their sins?
Jeremiah 6:21 ESV
Therefore thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will lay before this people stumbling blocks against which they shall stumble; fathers and sons together, neighbor and friend shall perish.’”
Ezekiel 14:3 ESV
“Son of man, these men have taken their idols into their hearts, and set the stumbling block of their iniquity before their faces. Should I indeed let myself be consulted by them?
1 Corinthians 1:18-22 ESV
18For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Notice how God gives faith to those who are outside the traditions and community. God is gracious to whom he chooses.
Boaz is an example of how God extends grace to whom he wills. God is our kinsman redeemer.
Ruth 2:2-13
[2]One day Ruth the Moabite said to Naomi, “Let me go out into the harvest fields to pick up the stalks of grain left behind by anyone who is kind enough to let me do it.”Naomi replied, “All right, my daughter, go ahead.”
[3]So Ruth went out to gather grain behind the harvesters. And as it happened, she found herself working in a field that belonged to Boaz, the relative of her father-in-law, Elimelech.
[4]While she was there, Boaz arrived from Bethlehem and greeted the harvesters. “The lord be with you!” he said.“The lord bless you!” the harvesters replied.
[5]Then Boaz asked his foreman, “Who is that young woman over there? Who does she belong to?”
[6]And the foreman replied, “She is the young woman from Moab who came back with Naomi.
[7]She asked me this morning if she could gather grain behind the harvesters. She has been hard at work ever since, except for a few minutes’ rest in the shelter.”
[8]Boaz went over and said to Ruth, “Listen, my daughter. Stay right here with us when you gather grain; don’t go to any other fields. Stay right behind the young women working in my field.
[9]See which part of the field they are harvesting, and then follow them. I have warned the young men not to treat you roughly. And when you are thirsty, help yourself to the water they have drawn from the well.”
[10]Ruth fell at his feet and thanked him warmly. “What have I done to deserve such kindness?” she asked. “I am only a foreigner.”
[11]“Yes, I know,” Boaz replied. “But I also know about everything you have done for your mother-in-law since the death of your husband. I have heard how you left your father and mother and your own land to live here among complete strangers.
[12]May the lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge, reward you fully for what you have done.”
[13]“I hope I continue to please you, sir,” she replied. “You have comforted me by speaking so kindly to me, even though I am not one of your workers.”
Boaz is an example of how God extends grace to whom he wills. God is our kinsman redeemer.
Ruth 2:2-13
[2]One day Ruth the Moabite said to Naomi, “Let me go out into the harvest fields to pick up the stalks of grain left behind by anyone who is kind enough to let me do it.”Naomi replied, “All right, my daughter, go ahead.”
[3]So Ruth went out to gather grain behind the harvesters. And as it happened, she found herself working in a field that belonged to Boaz, the relative of her father-in-law, Elimelech.
[4]While she was there, Boaz arrived from Bethlehem and greeted the harvesters. “The lord be with you!” he said.“The lord bless you!” the harvesters replied.
[5]Then Boaz asked his foreman, “Who is that young woman over there? Who does she belong to?”
[6]And the foreman replied, “She is the young woman from Moab who came back with Naomi.
[7]She asked me this morning if she could gather grain behind the harvesters. She has been hard at work ever since, except for a few minutes’ rest in the shelter.”
[8]Boaz went over and said to Ruth, “Listen, my daughter. Stay right here with us when you gather grain; don’t go to any other fields. Stay right behind the young women working in my field.
[9]See which part of the field they are harvesting, and then follow them. I have warned the young men not to treat you roughly. And when you are thirsty, help yourself to the water they have drawn from the well.”
[10]Ruth fell at his feet and thanked him warmly. “What have I done to deserve such kindness?” she asked. “I am only a foreigner.”
[11]“Yes, I know,” Boaz replied. “But I also know about everything you have done for your mother-in-law since the death of your husband. I have heard how you left your father and mother and your own land to live here among complete strangers.
[12]May the lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge, reward you fully for what you have done.”
[13]“I hope I continue to please you, sir,” she replied. “You have comforted me by speaking so kindly to me, even though I am not one of your workers.”
This makes you feel good, but is not relevant to the discussion.