Boaz is an example of an Israelite who had our traditions. Ruth is an example of somebody who joined the children of Israel. Neither has anything to do with the questions we are discussing.
Why Trust Paul?
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Boaz is an example of an Israelite who had our traditions. Ruth is an example of somebody who joined the children of Israel. Neither has anything to do with the questions we are discussing.
Sure it is.
You are merely teaching relativism, which has nothing to do with the Bible at all, but everything to do with your personal justification for picking and choosing whatever you want while rejecting whatever you want.
It is clear that you have no part in God's covenant, elect, people. "Not all Israel is Israel." Your argument is a perfect example for all who come across this thread.
Give me an argument, a reason, that will convince a non-believer that the Bible is true.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Great article by Adrian Rogers.
What evidence is there that the Bible is in fact God’s Word?
I want to give you five reasons to affirm the Bible is the Word of God.
First, I believe the Bible is the Word of God because of its scientific accuracy. The Truth of the Word of God tells us that God “hangeth the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7). How did Job know that the earth hung in space before the age of modern astronomy and space travel? The Holy Spirit told him. The scientists of Isaiah’s day didn’t know the topography of the earth, but Isaiah said, “It is [God] that sitteth upon the circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22). The word for “circle” here means a globe or sphere. How did Isaiah know that God say upon the circle of the earth? By divine inspiration.
Secondly, the Bible is affirmed through historical accuracy. Do you remember the story about the handwriting on the wall that is found in the fifth chapter of Daniel? Belshazzar hosted a feast with a thousand of his lords and ladies. Suddenly, a gruesome hand appeared out of nowhere and began to write on a wall. The king was disturbed and asked for someone to interpret the writing. Daniel was found and gave the interpretation. After the interpretation, “Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom.” (Daniel 5:29). Basing their opinion on Babylonian records, the historians claim this never happened. According to the records, the last king of Babylon was not Belshazzar, but a man named Nabonidas. And so, they said, the Bible is in error. There wasn’t a record of a king named Belshazzar. Well, the spades of archeologists continued to do their work. In 1853, an inscription was found on a cornerstone of a temple built by Nabonidas, to the god Ur, which read: “May I, Nabonidas, king of Babylon, not sin against thee. And may reverence for thee dwell in the heart of Belshazzar, my first-born favorite son.” From other inscriptions, it was learned that Belshazzar and Nabonidas were co-regents. Nabonidas traveled while Belshazzar stayed home to run the kingdom. Now that we know that Belshazzar and Nabonidas were co-regents, it makes sense that Belshazzar would say that Daniel would be the third ruler. What a marvelous nugget of truth tucked away in the Word of God!
Third, from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible reads as one book. And there is incredible unity to the Bible. The Bible is one book, and yet it is made up of 66 books, was written by at least 40 different authors over a period of about 1600 years, in 13 different countries and on three different continents. It was written in at least three different languages by people in all professions. The Bible forms one beautiful temple of truth that does not contradict itself theologically, morally, ethically, doctrinally, scientifically, historically, or in any other way.
Fourth, did you know the Bible is the only book in the world that has accurate prophecy? When you read the prophecies of the Bible, you simply have to stand back in awe. There are over 300 precise prophecies that deal with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New Testament. To say that these are fulfilled by chance is an astronomical impossibility.
Finally, the Bible is not a book of the month, but the Book of the Ages. First Peter 1:25 says: “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” No book has ever had as much opposition as the Bible. Men have laughed at it, scorned it, burned it, ridiculed it, and made laws against it. But the Word of God has survived. And it is applicable today as much as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.
It’s so majestically deep that scholars could swim and never touch the bottom. Yet so wonderfully shallow that a little child could come and get a drink of water without fear of drowning. That is God’s precious, holy Word. The Word of God. Know it. Believe it. It is True
What evidence is there that the Bible is in fact God’s Word?
I want to give you five reasons to affirm the Bible is the Word of God.
First, I believe the Bible is the Word of God because of its scientific accuracy. The Truth of the Word of God tells us that God “hangeth the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7). How did Job know that the earth hung in space before the age of modern astronomy and space travel? The Holy Spirit told him. The scientists of Isaiah’s day didn’t know the topography of the earth, but Isaiah said, “It is [God] that sitteth upon the circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22). The word for “circle” here means a globe or sphere. How did Isaiah know that God say upon the circle of the earth? By divine inspiration.
Secondly, the Bible is affirmed through historical accuracy. Do you remember the story about the handwriting on the wall that is found in the fifth chapter of Daniel? Belshazzar hosted a feast with a thousand of his lords and ladies. Suddenly, a gruesome hand appeared out of nowhere and began to write on a wall. The king was disturbed and asked for someone to interpret the writing. Daniel was found and gave the interpretation. After the interpretation, “Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom.” (Daniel 5:29). Basing their opinion on Babylonian records, the historians claim this never happened. According to the records, the last king of Babylon was not Belshazzar, but a man named Nabonidas. And so, they said, the Bible is in error. There wasn’t a record of a king named Belshazzar. Well, the spades of archeologists continued to do their work. In 1853, an inscription was found on a cornerstone of a temple built by Nabonidas, to the god Ur, which read: “May I, Nabonidas, king of Babylon, not sin against thee. And may reverence for thee dwell in the heart of Belshazzar, my first-born favorite son.” From other inscriptions, it was learned that Belshazzar and Nabonidas were co-regents. Nabonidas traveled while Belshazzar stayed home to run the kingdom. Now that we know that Belshazzar and Nabonidas were co-regents, it makes sense that Belshazzar would say that Daniel would be the third ruler. What a marvelous nugget of truth tucked away in the Word of God!
Third, from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible reads as one book. And there is incredible unity to the Bible. The Bible is one book, and yet it is made up of 66 books, was written by at least 40 different authors over a period of about 1600 years, in 13 different countries and on three different continents. It was written in at least three different languages by people in all professions. The Bible forms one beautiful temple of truth that does not contradict itself theologically, morally, ethically, doctrinally, scientifically, historically, or in any other way.
Fourth, did you know the Bible is the only book in the world that has accurate prophecy? When you read the prophecies of the Bible, you simply have to stand back in awe. There are over 300 precise prophecies that deal with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New Testament. To say that these are fulfilled by chance is an astronomical impossibility.
Finally, the Bible is not a book of the month, but the Book of the Ages. First Peter 1:25 says: “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” No book has ever had as much opposition as the Bible. Men have laughed at it, scorned it, burned it, ridiculed it, and made laws against it. But the Word of God has survived. And it is applicable today as much as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.
It’s so majestically deep that scholars could swim and never touch the bottom. Yet so wonderfully shallow that a little child could come and get a drink of water without fear of drowning. That is God’s precious, holy Word. The Word of God. Know it. Believe it. It is True
Sure it does.
God chooses to be gracious to whom He wills.
Now...will you believe it or not.
According to you, everything is relative. There is no right or wrong. We can believe Paul or not believe Paul. We can accept the historical record that Paul was a rabbi who studied under Gamaliel and taught about God being the kinsman Redeemer of whom God chooses. Or we can reject it. God will either give you faith to believe or he will let you die in your sins.
Since you wish to hold on to tradition and community we can trace the lineage of Jesus to Boaz and Ruth. Jesus became a Rabbi who corrected the mistakes made in the community and traditions. He had the sadir meal with his followers and declared that he represents the bread and the wine in the meal. He showed what the traditions pointed toward, which is himself as Messiah and Redeemer of all Israel (all the Ruths included.) He stated that those whom God chose to give him would believe. Those whom God would leave in their sins would not believe.
Based upon your attempt to make history relative to your own opinion, my observation is that YHWH has currently chosen to leave you in your own sins. Hopefully that changes some day.
There is none. God must either choose to give you faith or God will let you die in your sins.
Paul was dead set on rounding up and killing Christians in the name of tradition and community. God stopped him in his tracks on the way to Damascus and changed Paul forever. That is what God does for all whom He chooses to redeem. If God is willing, He will grab you and give you faith. If God is not willing, he will leave you to die in your sins and spend eternity in the pit (sheol) away from his presence. I pray God is merciful to you. I have no idea what he will choose to do with you.
First, a few accurate facts doesn't turn a book into God's Word
Second, a few historical facts that have outside confirmation doesn't make the entire book historically accurate of God's Word. By the way- the counter-argument works- it only takes one inaccurate historical reference, or one contradiction, in the Bible to prove it is not God's Word.
Third- no it doesn't read as one book, nor does it claim to.
Fourth, what you have is one book claiming that it fulfills the prophecies of another book. Not that convincing.
Finally- I don't think popularity is an indication of anything. If the Koran became more popular- would that make it True (TM)?
Textual criticism affirms the veracity of the Bible. If an intelligent person is going to toss out the Bible, then every piece of literature must be thrown out as fables.
What happens, however, is that people come up with requirements for the Bible that they don't require of any other piece of literature. This is done in an attempt to ignore the message in the Bible while trying to justify their ignorance based upon their hypocritical dual standards.
beameup
New member
I see blindness and hypocrisy in your statement. Go to Tel Aviv and look around and see how many of your "Jews" are not behaving like "pagans", totally disregarding Law.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Allah is a false god and Mohammed a false prophet. Neither died for your sins or were raised from the dead as the Lord Jesus Christ was. You shall perish without the righteousness of God upon you which is by the faith of Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). You must trust the Lord Jesus Christ believing the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that you will be saved and sealed unto the redemption of the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes...
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Peter references Paul and calls Paul's writings...Scripture.
2 Peter 3:15-16
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
[16]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
Seems that you wish to look at textual criticism. When evaluating the writings in the Bible and then evaluating the other ancient documents, the Bible is easily the most reliable document.
The Quran isn't even close as the closest extant documents come 400 years after Muhammad lived. It's so bad that scholars cannot verify if there was an actual Muhammad.
The accuracy of the Bible can be verified to about 99% accuracy, which beats all others with ease.
But...haters gonna hate, hate, hate...
The Bible / Book receiving body of Yahoshua.
The Bible / Book receiving body of Yahoshua.
I believe that the Bible disagrees with the Roman Catholic and Muslim faiths and also disagrees with many, many claims that I have read here in the forum.
I took some time to read through the pages of the forum and I am honored to see so many great remarks and insightful input and thoughtful people here. God Bless You all in the deepest love possible. But - I ask the wonderful people here to please consider and to please remember that, Rev 22:7 shows that Yahoshua, The Anointed " HIMSELF " { Jesus } had a direct, personal hand and personal involvement in the writing and making of the Bible.
! - Please read the truth in - Rev 22:7 Behold, I { Yahoshua } come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
REMEMBER - - In The Bible, -- Christ established - A bible receiving church.
12 times in the book of Revelation, Yahoshua HIMSELF COMMANDS JOHN, Saying, “ "What thou seest, write in a { Bible / Book } and send it unto the churches. Here - YAHOSHUA ALSO NAMED them, ( by location), - - In - John 10:35 - YAHOSHUA CLEARLY STATED, ““ The word of God came TO THE JUDGES and the Scripture cannot be broken; “” - Yahoshua also CLEARLY SAID, TRADITIONS OUT OF GODS WORD. { THE BIBLE } THE SCRIPTURES, ARE void, vain. non-effect - and man-made.
And - THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY ALL JEWS.. and THE EARLIEST BIBLE TRANSLATION EVER KNOWN TO HAVE EXISTED, IS OUT OF N. AFRICA. .. IT IS THE VETUS ITALIA BIBLE OF 150 AD
"The VETUS ITALIA BIBLE was used by the Christians in the churches of the Waldenses, Gauls, Celts, Albigenses and most all other Non – Catholic believers in Yahoshua as early as 150 AD. -
The Roman Catholic Church, however, did not produce a Bible translation until nearly 500 years after Yahoshua and The Roman Catholic Church waited until nearly 2000 years after Yahoshua, to produce a single Bible into any other language anywhere on the planet.
Here are links to the very first Non Catholic Bible translation of 150 – 200 AD
http://www.vetuslatina.org/
& Bible Source
& https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetus_Latina
& Old Latin Version (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)
& Vetus Latina - The Remains of the Old Latin Bible
& 2nd Century Old Latin Vulgate
& Vetus Latina - Die Reste der altlateinischen Bibel
& https://global.oup.com/academic/product/...s&lang=en&
& https://sites.google.com/site/haghoughton/lnt
& http://classic.net.bible.org/dictionary....0The%20Old
& https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Vetus_Latina
The whole /complete Bible, based on Greek manuscripts of N.T. was the Vetus Itala OF 150 AD out of N. Africa.
Vetus Itala OF 200 AD WAS the WHOLE New Testament Bible...complete in thirty-eight manuscripts, its Old-Testament text survived only in parts.
Catholic Enc Vol. XV, © 2007 CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Versions of the Bible
Please remember that PAUL.. who is believed to have written wrote 14 BOOKS of the Bible -- Clearly said, all written scriptures are for correction, doctrine, reproofing and perfecting.. PAUL COMMANDED HIS WRITINGS,/ bible, books, BIBLIOS…..be SENT TO ALL BROTHERS, ALL CHURCHES
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
2Th 3:14 And if any man obeys not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Co 10:11 Let such a one think this, that, such as we are in word by epistles when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
Heb 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written an epistle unto you in few words.
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. ________________
Here we have the total and complete opposite of the idea and claim that there was not a " New Testament " available or written and translated until the 4 th or 5 th century. The Apostles truly were going around and passing out, handing out Books and Chapters of the Bible. The Apostles were specifically commanding that their Bible, be sent and passed and spread around and spread throughout - ALL OF THE CHURCHES. EVERYWHERE. To all believers.
It was very, very important that the Scriptures be distributed to all believers durring the Apostles life time. Why deny this and continue to look upon the scriptures - throught the scope, contact, lense and through the CONTACT and eyes of a Catholislamic perspective.
I also ask each and everyone of You here- What was is Pauls message that was so different from the Old Testament. ?[ Pauls message confirms the Old Testament in every last detail - This is why both Paul and Yahoshua " both " were rebuking Peter when Peter srayed from the message of the Old Testament concerrning Peters disputes against the death of Yahoshua and also concerning the Gospel Of Abraham being given to the Gentiles. Are not all of Pauls teachings are straight from the Prophecy of the Old Testament. ? ?
The Bible / Book receiving body of Yahoshua.
I believe that the Bible disagrees with the Roman Catholic and Muslim faiths and also disagrees with many, many claims that I have read here in the forum.
I took some time to read through the pages of the forum and I am honored to see so many great remarks and insightful input and thoughtful people here. God Bless You all in the deepest love possible. But - I ask the wonderful people here to please consider and to please remember that, Rev 22:7 shows that Yahoshua, The Anointed " HIMSELF " { Jesus } had a direct, personal hand and personal involvement in the writing and making of the Bible.
! - Please read the truth in - Rev 22:7 Behold, I { Yahoshua } come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
REMEMBER - - In The Bible, -- Christ established - A bible receiving church.
12 times in the book of Revelation, Yahoshua HIMSELF COMMANDS JOHN, Saying, “ "What thou seest, write in a { Bible / Book } and send it unto the churches. Here - YAHOSHUA ALSO NAMED them, ( by location), - - In - John 10:35 - YAHOSHUA CLEARLY STATED, ““ The word of God came TO THE JUDGES and the Scripture cannot be broken; “” - Yahoshua also CLEARLY SAID, TRADITIONS OUT OF GODS WORD. { THE BIBLE } THE SCRIPTURES, ARE void, vain. non-effect - and man-made.
And - THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY ALL JEWS.. and THE EARLIEST BIBLE TRANSLATION EVER KNOWN TO HAVE EXISTED, IS OUT OF N. AFRICA. .. IT IS THE VETUS ITALIA BIBLE OF 150 AD
"The VETUS ITALIA BIBLE was used by the Christians in the churches of the Waldenses, Gauls, Celts, Albigenses and most all other Non – Catholic believers in Yahoshua as early as 150 AD. -
The Roman Catholic Church, however, did not produce a Bible translation until nearly 500 years after Yahoshua and The Roman Catholic Church waited until nearly 2000 years after Yahoshua, to produce a single Bible into any other language anywhere on the planet.
Here are links to the very first Non Catholic Bible translation of 150 – 200 AD
http://www.vetuslatina.org/
& Bible Source
& https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetus_Latina
& Old Latin Version (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)
& Vetus Latina - The Remains of the Old Latin Bible
& 2nd Century Old Latin Vulgate
& Vetus Latina - Die Reste der altlateinischen Bibel
& https://global.oup.com/academic/product/...s&lang=en&
& https://sites.google.com/site/haghoughton/lnt
& http://classic.net.bible.org/dictionary....0The%20Old
& https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Vetus_Latina
The whole /complete Bible, based on Greek manuscripts of N.T. was the Vetus Itala OF 150 AD out of N. Africa.
Vetus Itala OF 200 AD WAS the WHOLE New Testament Bible...complete in thirty-eight manuscripts, its Old-Testament text survived only in parts.
Catholic Enc Vol. XV, © 2007 CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Versions of the Bible
Please remember that PAUL.. who is believed to have written wrote 14 BOOKS of the Bible -- Clearly said, all written scriptures are for correction, doctrine, reproofing and perfecting.. PAUL COMMANDED HIS WRITINGS,/ bible, books, BIBLIOS…..be SENT TO ALL BROTHERS, ALL CHURCHES
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
2Th 3:14 And if any man obeys not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Co 10:11 Let such a one think this, that, such as we are in word by epistles when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
Heb 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written an epistle unto you in few words.
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. ________________
Here we have the total and complete opposite of the idea and claim that there was not a " New Testament " available or written and translated until the 4 th or 5 th century. The Apostles truly were going around and passing out, handing out Books and Chapters of the Bible. The Apostles were specifically commanding that their Bible, be sent and passed and spread around and spread throughout - ALL OF THE CHURCHES. EVERYWHERE. To all believers.
It was very, very important that the Scriptures be distributed to all believers durring the Apostles life time. Why deny this and continue to look upon the scriptures - throught the scope, contact, lense and through the CONTACT and eyes of a Catholislamic perspective.
I also ask each and everyone of You here- What was is Pauls message that was so different from the Old Testament. ?[ Pauls message confirms the Old Testament in every last detail - This is why both Paul and Yahoshua " both " were rebuking Peter when Peter srayed from the message of the Old Testament concerrning Peters disputes against the death of Yahoshua and also concerning the Gospel Of Abraham being given to the Gentiles. Are not all of Pauls teachings are straight from the Prophecy of the Old Testament. ? ?