Why No One Has Been Predestinated

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
This is why God gave us the Bible. If it is not according to the Bible scrap it.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom 9:15-16KJV
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
This is why God gave us the Bible. If it is not according to the Bible scrap it.


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:28-29KJV
 

flintstoned

New member
Salvation has been provided by Jesus Christ for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

No one needs to be predestinated, simply because God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world into himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You make God to be an unjust, unmerciful tyrant when you embrace Calvinism. If that is what you believe God is like you will never see heaven.

NO!NO!NO! None of these verses suggest that the whole world has already been reconciled! Why do you keep saying this? Why would we even need the ministry of reconciliation, if the whole world was already reconciled?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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We are all sinners without works. We are all born after Adam. It is not any ones fault that they are a sinner. We are all born into sin, Psalm 51:5.
No, Robert. You are quite incorrect.

Our condition is due to the failure of our Federal Representative, Adam. All Adam's progeny sinned in Adam just as if we were there with him in the Garden. Hence we are all born not into sin, but born as sinners.

To deny the effects of the original sin of Adam inevitably leads to all manner of error, as you amply give evidence.

For more on the topic of original sin see:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...cs-of-Reformed-Theology&p=4559007#post4559007

To further understand and witness the effects of said denial upon the church militant see:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

AMR
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Which is four reasons not to believe




:chuckle: There needs to be a subsection just for RP's myriad of anti-Calvinist threads


The words "faith" and "believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. They are words that are not popular with Calvinist. Why is that so? I have also noticed that Calvinist seldom quote John 3:16, "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish , but have everlasting life"

I am one of those whosoevers that believes. No predestination or Calvinism needed.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
The words "faith" and "believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. They are words that are not popular with Calvinist. Why is that so? I have also noticed that Calvinist seldom quote John 3:16, "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in him should not perish , but have everlasting life"

I am one of those whosoevers that believes. No predestination or Calvinism needed.

Those who believe are elected by God, rather than by the Catholic Church who claims to have authority in the matter.

You see, real Christianity is not an abandonment of historical notions like you all report it to be. The fact is that you are just so far from orthodoxy that you cannot harmonize the Bible- you simply hinge onto the verses that uphold what you think ought to be.

Reformed belief harmonizes the whole of it- you do not choose God, and God's grace isn't so weak that a person can simply choose and then reject it. God only favors those who persevere, it is shown throughout the entire Bible- there is a supreme shortage of anyone who abandons their faith and didn't nonetheless serve God's purpose by doing so. Judas is a perfect example.

Your heterodoxy is not doing anything but hurting Christianity, because it's given rise to the lukewarm and a hindering to those with an actual conviction of Spirit. Of course, God has a plan for that to, sending deception to all those who ought to be judged- that is how Calvin condemned the papacy, and that is how Calvinists should condemn Pelagian, 'easy believist' heretics :wave2:
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Those who believe are elected by God, rather than by the Catholic Church who claims to have authority in the matter.

You see, real Christianity is not an abandonment of historical notions like you all report it to be. The fact is that you are just so far from orthodoxy that you cannot harmonize the Bible- you simply hinge onto the verses that uphold what you think ought to be.

Reformed belief harmonizes the whole of it- you do not choose God, and God's grace isn't so weak that a person can simply choose and then reject it. God only favors those who persevere, it is shown throughout the entire Bible- there is a supreme shortage of anyone who abandons their faith and didn't nonetheless serve God's purpose by doing so. Judas is a perfect example.

Your heterodoxy is not doing anything but hurting Christianity, because it's given rise to the lukewarm and a hindering to those with an actual conviction of Spirit. Of course, God has a plan for that to, sending deception to all those who ought to be judged- that is how Calvin condemned the papacy, and that is how Calvinists should condemn Pelagian, 'easy believist' heretics :wave2:


There is one thing that I am sure of. God is just, merciful and righteous in all of his dealings with fallen man. A God that condemns people to hell before they are born only exist in the twisted, perverted mind of a reprobate.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
This is why God gave us the Bible. If it is not according to the Bible scrap it.

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Prov. 16:4KJV

You also apparently want to believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

Why? Because I quoted scripture as you requested?
I suggest you take some scissors to the Bible you say you believe in. There are some portions you do not accept.

Deny the verse or stand by it. Your choice.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Why? Because I quoted scripture as you requested?
I suggest you take some scissors to the Bible you say you believe in. There are some portions you do not accept.

Deny the verse or stand by it. Your choice.
But Proverbs 16:4 says for the DAY of evil, not predestination to hell
 

beloved57

Well-known member
There is one thing that I am sure of. God is just, merciful and righteous in all of his dealings with fallen man. A God that condemns people to hell before they are born only exist in the twisted, perverted mind of a reprobate.

You teach that God is unjust in punishing the Righteous for their sins.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
But Proverbs 16:4 says for the DAY of evil, not predestination to hell

It says The Lord has made all things - even evil ones (rasha'), for the day of evil (ra').

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:21-22KJV
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
These are tests to see if we will follow the Lord to the end and believe what He says, even if it means giving up on preconceived notions of who He is and what His purposes are. He takes responsibility for all life that comes into the world, and for the souls attached to them. He is the one who knows what to do. Ours is only to trust that the words He gives are true and are meant not to lead us astray.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Why no one has been predestinated?

Because every human being has been granted with the attribute of Freewill. With Freewill, we all have the power to choose to live and how to live, and to die whenever we want. No one therefore is born predestinated to this or that way to live and when to die.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
But Proverbs 16:4 says for the DAY of evil, not predestination to hell

Romans 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

Brief...more here: http://www.gty.org/resources/questi...922-vessels-of-wrath-prepared-for-destruction
 

Ben Masada

New member
These are tests to see if we will follow the Lord to the end and believe what He says, even if it means giving up on preconceived notions of who He is and what His purposes are. He takes responsibility for all life that comes into the world, and for the souls attached to them. He is the one who knows what to do. Ours is only to trust that the words He gives are true and are meant not to lead us astray.

The Lord takes no responsibility for the lives of men that come into the world. Why? Because no one is born as a robot; but every one is granted with the attribute of Freewill. We are all liable to our own wrongdoings.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
To embrace Calvinism is to embrace the doctrine of demons.

To be a Calvinist you must believe that God is unjust. To believe and teach that God predestinates people to hell before they are ever born is blasphemy against God, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

It is not possible to have saving faith and confidence in a God that would do such a terrible thing. How can you believe that God would do that?

We are all sinners without works. We are all born after Adam. It is not any ones fault that they are a sinner. We are all born into sin, Psalm 51:5. To say that God is justified in condemning sinners to hell is another Calvinist lie. If anyone goes to hell it will not be because they are sinners, it will be because they don't have faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ.

Calvinist cannot believe the Gospel, nor do they have faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. Calvinism is the way that seems right unto a man, but leads to destruction, Proverbs 16:25.


2 Timothy 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Robert,

You are not an ambassador for Christ. You are a clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.).

James 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

It is apparent from your words that there is no love in you; Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Some free advice:

2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Peter 1: 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

Col. 1:10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I am praying for you.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Romans 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

Brief...more here: http://www.gty.org/resources/questi...922-vessels-of-wrath-prepared-for-destruction

The "What If" does not mean that is what God does.
 
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