Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 4

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

aCW...

I haven't checked in on these threads since about halfway through Part 2. I still have the same basic two-part question:

What do we do? And how do we do it? (Both individually and collectively.)

I despise every facet of the Left's agenda. I'm saddened and incensed by the acceptance of the Leftist agenda by alleged "Christians" and "Churches". (I'm blessed to have a fellowship where this is openly addressed, and discipline has been administered several times, including for fornication or marital immorality.)

If there's a 10 or 12 or 20 or 5000 step outline, I'd sure like to have such a thing. I live in a state university town that is crawling with neo-liberals on the faculty and as a student body. My wife is a graduate student, and she navigates all the trigglypuff nonsense very well overall; but it's a daily grind (that we're more than willing to undertake), but we want to be effective.

What is the practical and pragmatic approach at every level? How do we influence legislation, and everything leading up to that? What are the answers at this point?

And I'm at least as concerned about the alleged "Christians" and "Churches" that are giving in as I am about the overall culture. An agreement that perversions of sexuality against the divine created order are anything but sin is a denial of Christ and His finished work. It's non-repentant and non-confessional. But with rampant fornication and adultery (and epidemic addiction to pornography) so prevalent within a high percentage of regular church-attending professing "Believers", it's a mess.

The church at large doesn't understand the basic meanings and applications of sin (the noun) and repentance (the noun) and confession/profession. It's a "being" issue, not just a "doing" issue.

Do you have some kind of curricularized outline that would help with effective solutions?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

aCW...

I haven't checked in on these threads since about halfway through Part 2. I still have the same basic two-part question:

What do we do? And how do we do it? (Both individually and collectively.)

I despise every facet of the Left's agenda. I'm saddened and incensed by the acceptance of the Leftist agenda by alleged "Christians" and "Churches". (I'm blessed to have a fellowship where this is openly addressed, and discipline has been administered several times, including for fornication or marital immorality.)

If there's a 10 or 12 or 20 or 5000 step outline, I'd sure like to have such a thing. I live in a state university town that is crawling with neo-liberals on the faculty and as a student body. My wife is a graduate student, and she navigates all the trigglypuff nonsense very well overall; but it's a daily grind (that we're more than willing to undertake), but we want to be effective.

What is the practical and pragmatic approach at every level? How do we influence legislation, and everything leading up to that? What are the answers at this point?

And I'm at least as concerned about the alleged "Christians" and "Churches" that are giving in as I am about the overall culture. An agreement that perversions of sexuality against the divine created order are anything but sin is a denial of Christ and His finished work. It's non-repentant and non-confessional. But with rampant fornication and adultery (and epidemic addiction to pornography) so prevalent within a high percentage of regular church-attending professing "Believers", it's a mess.

The church at large doesn't understand the basic meanings and applications of sin (the noun) and repentance (the noun) and confession/profession. It's a "being" issue, not just a "doing" issue.

Do you have some kind of curricularized outline that would help with effective solutions?

What kind of discipline was administered in the church setting?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Me thinkz that someone is ashamed when homosexual 'culture' is revealed.

I mean the homo agenda at parks is unacceptable - that's where they hang out

Theocrat!

Back to the topic of my earlier post:

Of course the most popular 'gay' historical site is and undoubtedly will be the Stonewall Inn in New York City.

I wonder if the tour guide will tell the tourists that it was a place where "chickenhawks" gave underage boys/wannabe girls (transvestites) booze, drugs and money for sex?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/sfb111/image_xlimage_2010_06_R7161_Stonewall_crew.jpg

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

What kind of discipline was administered in the church setting?

In the cases of fornication or adultery, it was a matter of the Pastor confronting the men in love to restore them. There are 4 that I'm aware of. The three that were adultery confessed and were accountable. They each went through personal counseling and marital counseling, and each had a wife that was willing to forgive and remain married.

The one issue of fornication was a divorced man who was not pentient and resisted being accountable. Within a few months, he ultimately confessed and followed the counsel of the Pastor to separate from his girlfriend for a time and eventually proceed with marriage.

There were also several issues of gay/lesbian grown children of members who wanted to use the church for their ceremony, with one lesbian pair also wanting to join the church after moving back to the area.

The Pastor took a public stand via preaching and teaching the Word, and met with each pair individually to explain the divine created order along with sin and repentance. None were willing to confess their sin, of course. So the Pastor explained why the Church could not condone their unbiblical union.

One set of parents left the church and went to the church that allowed them to get married in their facility. Several other members were a bit miffed about it all, but the Pastor stood his ground in solid biblical teaching and preaching. The Constitution and By-laws of the Church were revised some time ago with legal counsel to prevent legal action in such cases.

It's about as functional as I've ever seen discipline to be, which is always messy. But none of it gets ignored if it's public knowledge in any sense. If there are unmarried adults who come as a couple, the Pastor finds an opportunity in his conversations with them to ask about their relationship and sexuality.

It's not invasive at all. He's an incredibly gentle and gracious shepherd whom everyone respects. He simply asks a few direct questions. It's a very functional Body as far as confessing faults to one another.

Obviously, there is going to be secret sexual sin in the fellowship that isn't immediately dealt with.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

aCW...

I haven't checked in on these threads since about halfway through Part 2.

I vividly recall our debates. You were very pro LGBTQ. While I do still have notes from Part 2's table of contents, the thread is not available to go back and review our conversations.

I still have the same basic two-part question:

What do we do? And how do we do it? (Both individually and collectively.)


The church at large doesn't understand the basic meanings and applications of sin (the noun) and repentance (the noun) and confession/profession. It's a "being" issue, not just a "doing" issue.

Do you have some kind of curricularized outline that would help with effective solutions?

I can't emphasize enough the role that civil government has played in promoting homosexuality throughout our society.

If you sincerely want to get involved and change things, forget about trying to do it inside the Church (many of which are pro LGBTQ), get involved in the political process and nominate and vote in God-fearing men and women into political office.

Read this very important article, in fact memorize it so well that you can recite it backwards. If civil government fails, the Church and the family fail.


CIVIL GOVERNMENT: THE NEGLECTED MINISTRY
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue08/civil_government.htm

http://bibleencyclopedia.com/kjvsmall/KJV_Romans_13-4.jpg

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I vividly recall our debates. You were very pro LGBTQ.

Ummm... No. I've never been remotely pro-LGBTQ. Not even a hint. And I never debated with you. I didn't even post but a handful of times, and it was always an attempt to find out how to practically and pragmatically implement what you were advocating.

You said all this back then, presuming I was pro-LGBTQ (gawd, I hate that acronym; it's so sterile as if there's nothing immoral about what each of the letters stand for). I'm not. Never have been.

While I do still have notes from Part 2's table of contents, the thread is not available to go back and review our conversations.

That's unfortunate, because there was a lot of good info you posted on the history of the sexual revolution, etc. But you wouldn't find me promoting the sexual perversion culture in those archives.

I can't emphasize enough the role that civil government has played in promoting homosexuality throughout our society.

Agreed.

If you sincerely want to get involved and change things, forget about trying to do it inside the Church (many of which are pro LGBTQ), get involved in the political process and nominate and vote in God-fearing men and women into political office.

I've already done that repeatedly, and I don't think the voting process is effective. We have selected and groomed candidates that are chosen for us.

Read this very important article, in fact memorize it so well that you can recite it backwards. If civil government fails, the Church and the family fail.

I think civil government has already failed, and the Church and family have already failed to the point of it being a miracle to recover them.

CIVIL GOVERNMENT: THE NEGLECTED MINISTRY
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue08/civil_government.htm

http://bibleencyclopedia.com/kjvsmall/KJV_Romans_13-4.jpg

Okay, thanks.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

In the cases of fornication or adultery, it was a matter of the Pastor confronting the men in love to restore them. There are 4 that I'm aware of. The three that were adultery confessed and were accountable. They each went through personal counseling and marital counseling, and each had a wife that was willing to forgive and remain married.

The one issue of fornication was a divorced man who was not pentient and resisted being accountable. Within a few months, he ultimately confessed and followed the counsel of the Pastor to separate from his girlfriend for a time and eventually proceed with marriage.

There were also several issues of gay/lesbian grown children of members who wanted to use the church for their ceremony, with one lesbian pair also wanting to join the church after moving back to the area.

The Pastor took a public stand via preaching and teaching the Word, and met with each pair individually to explain the divine created order along with sin and repentance. None were willing to confess their sin, of course. So the Pastor explained why the Church could not condone their unbiblical union.

One set of parents left the church and went to the church that allowed them to get married in their facility. Several other members were a bit miffed about it all, but the Pastor stood his ground in solid biblical teaching and preaching. The Constitution and By-laws of the Church were revised some time ago with legal counsel to prevent legal action in such cases.

It's about as functional as I've ever seen discipline to be, which is always messy. But none of it gets ignored if it's public knowledge in any sense. If there are unmarried adults who come as a couple, the Pastor finds an opportunity in his conversations with them to ask about their relationship and sexuality.

It's not invasive at all. He's an incredibly gentle and gracious shepherd whom everyone respects. He simply asks a few direct questions. It's a very functional Body as far as confessing faults to one another.

Obviously, there is going to be secret sexual sin in the fellowship that isn't immediately dealt with.

Thanks for answering.

As you defined, nothing is 100 percent effective, even in the church.

I would say the best action at this time would be to pass a law that any displays of affection more than brief hugging in public between same sex adults be prohibited.(including holding hands)

Maybe even make it a felony.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

...As you defined, nothing is 100 percent effective, even in the church.

I would say the best action at this time would be to pass a law that any displays of affection more than brief hugging in public between same sex adults be prohibited.

Maybe even make it a felony.

I see that you're making a mockery of this thread. Why am I not surprised, after all I'm talking to a guy who is an unapologetic Donald Trump supporter.

Since you're here, would you care to discuss Donald Trump's stance on LGBTQ issues? I've covered it quite thoroughly in Part 4, how about I get your take on it?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Ummm... No. I've never been remotely pro-LGBTQ. Not even a hint. And I never debated with you. I didn't even post but a handful of times, and it was always an attempt to find out how to practically and pragmatically implement what you were advocating.

From my notes:

PneumaPsucheSoma (and his*$1.95 vocabulary) joins the thread; page 16, post #233; aCW welcomes PPS to the thread with some information about the Founding Fathers; page 17, post #241; PPS talks about "Godless Hellocentrists"; page 17, post #251; PPS*implies that aCW's....."method" turns people away from the important message; page 19, post #272


aCultureWarrior says goodbye to a frustrated PneumaPsucheSoma (and his rant about theocracies, not to mention his 4 syllable words), and asks the question that can't seem to be answered by any homosexualists:* "Why did 2,000 years of Judeo-Christian western civilization have it wrong when it came to criminalizing homosexuality, and you, a bunch of*drag queens and NAMBLA have it right?"; page 23, post #338.

If you want to stick around and make an honest attempt this time at addressing this very serious issue, please do. If not, have a nice day.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I see that you're making a mockery of this thread. Why am I not surprised, after I'm talking to a guy who is an unapologetic Donald Trump supporter.

Since you're here, would you care to discuss Donald Trump's stance on LGBTQ issues? I've it covered quite thoroughly in Part 4, how about I get your take on it?

Why do you think I'm mocking you?

Wouldn't it be alright for all Christians to unite in signing a petition for such a law?

Not interested in Trumps stand on gays at this time.

I am impressed with his learning from Perot's attempt at the presidency and joining a party.

Having a third wheel is how slick Willie got in.

If I thought it would work I'd vote for a third party candidate.

Right now Trump is the closest thing to such a critter.

Sorry if that shakes you up a bit.

 

[patrick jane]

Ummm... No. I've never been remotely pro-LGBTQ. Not even a hint. And I never debated with you.

But But aCW remembers VIVIDLY :rotfl:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I see that you're making a mockery of this thread. Why am I not surprised, after I'm talking to a guy who is an unapologetic Donald Trump supporter.

Since you're here, would you care to discuss Donald Trump's stance on LGBTQ issues? I've it covered quite thoroughly in Part 4, how about I get your take on it?

Why do you think I'm mocking you?

Wouldn't it be alright for all Christians to unite in signing a petition for such a law?

LOL...how about signing a petition to over rule Lawrence v Texas and Obergefell v Hodges first? (which appear to be the law of the land at this time).

Not interested in Trumps stand on gays at this time.

If you indeed stand for decency, you should be interested in Donald Trumps stance on LGBTQ rights (for instance he's against North Carolina's "bathroom bill").

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

But But aCW remembers VIVIDLY :rotfl:

Yep.

I didn't see how PPS talking about Theocracies could be construed as condoning drag queens.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

But But aCW remembers VIVIDLY :rotfl:

Shouldn't you be doing something constructive like viewing each and every word that I've written so that you can report me for TOL policy violations?

Speaking of censorship: It appears that the HRC (founded by Terry Bean, an accused pederast) doesn't like the results of a recent study.

More on that later...

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Yep.

I didn't see how PPS talking about Theocracies could be construed as condoning drag queens.

You're talking to someone (Patrick jane) who has used that ploy numerous times.

Legislating righteous (Godly) laws doesn't mean that a "state religion" is mandated.

If I had a nickel for every time that phony attempt at an excuse was used...

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

From my notes:

PneumaPsucheSoma (and his*$1.95 vocabulary) joins the thread; page 16, post #233; aCW welcomes PPS to the thread with some information about the Founding Fathers; page 17, post #241; PPS talks about "Godless Hellocentrists"; page 17, post #251; PPS*implies that aCW's....."method" turns people away from the important message; page 19, post #272


aCultureWarrior says goodbye to a frustrated PneumaPsucheSoma (and his rant about theocracies, not to mention his 4 syllable words), and asks the question that can't seem to be answered by any homosexualists:* "Why did 2,000 years of Judeo-Christian western civilization have it wrong when it came to criminalizing homosexuality, and you, a bunch of*drag queens and NAMBLA have it right?"; page 23, post #338.

You misunderstood then, and you misunderstand now. I realize it's because of your fervor, but that is off-putting to many. I look past it, because I DO see the egregious error in non-criminalized same-gender sexuality (I won't even use the term homosexual, because it legitimizes something that can't be legitimized; and it relegates true sexuality to having to include the hetero prefix).

I've never thought 2000 years of Judeo-Christian civilizations and cultures have had it wrong to criminalize same-gender sexuality. I just don't know how to get there from here now that the tide has long turned; so you also misunderstood my points regarding Theocracies.

I don't know how more plain I can be. Your strength is also your weakness. You see everyone as a homosexualist (your terminology). My point then and now is that your methodologies aren't always effective, regardless of whether you're right about the subject matter and have relentless intentions for the good.

I don't care about all that. You're providing a ton a information for those who will listen and take a stand. I'm wanting to be more effective in taking a stand. It's as simple as that.

If you want to stick around and make an honest attempt this time at addressing this very serious issue, please do. If not, have a nice day.

I'm here. I don't share your abrasive approach, but I agree with your premises. Sexual perversion is the very foundation of eroding everything Christian in modern western culture. And I consider standard fornication and adultery to be every bit as damaging as same-gender sexual deviance. Deviance is deviance.

My sexually intimate relationship with my wife is free of lust and perverted sexual acts that emulate same-gender sexaul immorality. I don't condone and endorse sodomy and/or fellatio/cunnilingus by married couples.

I'd say I'm pretty far right on all this. There isn't any Leftist in me. I despise neo-liberalism.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior


LOL...how about signing a petition to over rule Lawrence v Texas and Obergefell v Hodges first? (which appear to be the law of the land at this time).

Does it beat the alternative? :AoO:

If you indeed stand for decency, you should be interested in Donald Trumps stance on LGBTQ rights (for instance he's against North Carolina's "bathroom bill").

So?

What do you want me to do about it?

 

[ok doser]

... I consider standard fornication and adultery to be every bit as damaging as same-gender sexual deviance. ...

:thumb:

let's not forget the unprecedented availability of the most perverse forms of pornography to anybody - of any age - who has access to the internet

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

:thumb:

let's not forget the unprecedented availability of the most perverse forms of pornography to anybody - of any age - who has access to the internet

An absolute overwhelming epidemic. I'd sure like to know what the practical answer is for getting rid of it at this point.

It's an issue for somewhere between 65% and 95% of regular-attending church-going men, and growing rapidly among women (and couples).

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I see that you're making a mockery of this thread. Why am I not surprised, after I'm talking to a guy who is an unapologetic Donald Trump supporter.

Since you're here, would you care to discuss Donald Trump's stance on LGBTQ issues? I've it covered quite thoroughly in Part 4, how about I get your take on it?

LOL...how about signing a petition to over rule Lawrence v Texas and Obergefell v Hodges first? (which appear to be the law of the land at this time).

If you indeed stand for decency, you should be interested in Donald Trumps stance on LGBTQ rights (for instance he's against North Carolina's "bathroom bill").

Okay, here seems to be a practical means of getting involved and taking a stand to make changes.

How do we find petitions to sign. How do get informed and stay apprised of bills in state and federal legislature to address, and in what manner to be most effective.

This is what I'm talking about as guidlelines. Multiple specific steps to be heard and become effective or influential in the whole process. And how do we begin to reverse what is already on the books as legislation?