Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal

[intojoy]

So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?

I pointed out homo ridiculousness to him by age 4. Problem solved idiots


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[serpentdove]

[Conversion therapy for Sodomites] The basic issue is the vast majority of mental health professionals as represented by over 30 professional organizations worldwide have condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and likely to do more harm to the subject than benefit…

They could get an honest job (Is 5:20). :idunno: Psychiatry has little to offer. :dizzy: It’s a heart issue. oly:

The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14]

heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).

 

[Kit the Coyote]

I pointed out homo ridiculousness to him by age 4. Problem solved idiots


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So all you need to do is talk to your kid at age 4. So you have no objection then to these therapies being banned as they are unnecessary from your viewpoint?

Of course, I noticed you didn't answer the question, not every parent thinks to talk to their kids about this at age four. Indeed, a lot of parents seem to avoid discussing sex at all with thier children in the mistaken belief that it will encourage them.

 

[Ktoyou]

It doesn't work and it's abusive:

The first five results on Google for "Does Conversion Therapy Work?"

https://www.livescience.com/25082-gay-conversion-therapy-facts.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstr...sion-therapy?utm_term=.tdVrmPql0N#.wkQJLo9BVN

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...rs/201801/conversion-therapy-isnt-therapy-all

https://www.quora.com/Does-voluntary-gay-conversion-therapy-work



The following five are no more positive and given that the "practices" have been roundly condemned as not only quackery but harmful in accredited scientific circles and that's there's no credible evidence that homosexuals can be "cured" anyway then what justification is there for "therapy centers" to be open anywhere at all?

Good for New Hampshire to be the latest state to outlaw such abuse but unfortunately there's still places where it's legal for minors to be forced into what is nothing other than degrading and harmful "treatment".

How can that be acceptable to anyone?

It never woks and is not covered by insurance in the USA

 

[Ktoyou]

So all you need to do is talk to your kid at age 4. So you have no objection then to these therapies being banned as they are unnecessary from your viewpoint?

Of course, I noticed you didn't answer the question, not every parent thinks to talk to their kids about this at age four. Indeed, a lot of parents seem to avoid discussing sex at all with thier children in the mistaken belief that it will encourage them.

Funny, kids past puberty have the lowest sex rates since the 1950s.

As to argument, find someone with a true reason, or belief in a idea to engage.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

They could get an honest job (Is 5:20). :idunno: Psychiatry has little to offer. :dizzy: It’s a heart issue. oly:

Perhaps not but it is the basis of the most of the organizations that claim to provide conversion therapy so the opinions of the authorities in the field are relevant as far as the law is concerned.

 

[intojoy]

So all you need to do is talk to your kid at age 4. So you have no objection then to these therapies being banned as they are unnecessary from your viewpoint?

Of course, I noticed you didn't answer the question, not every parent thinks to talk to their kids about this at age four. Indeed, a lot of parents seem to avoid discussing sex at all with thier children in the mistaken belief that it will encourage them.

Worked for all three. Once they saw on tv or streets a homosexual attraction being displayed I jokingly laughed it off to them the abnormally and absurdities.


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[Arthur Brain]

Worked for all three. Once they saw on tv or streets a homosexual attraction being displayed I jokingly laughed it off to them the abnormally and absurdities.


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You should patent that as a "cure", and then go arrest an earwig or something...

lain:

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Funny, kids past puberty have the lowest sex rates since the 1950s.

Not sure your point but I would agree the current generation of young people seem much more informed and aware of the issues than when I was that age.

As to argument, find someone with a true reason, or belief in a idea to engage.

I generally try to respond for folks to respond to me, at least out of politeness if nothing else. And I am rather amused at how the question is being avoided.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Worked for all three. Once they saw on tv or streets a homosexual attraction being displayed I jokingly laughed it off to them the abnormally and absurdities.


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Which may work for you, and I wish you all the best with that, but it doesn't address the questions. Again most parents don't do this and so to them, the relevance of these issues is quite serious.

 

[Ktoyou]

Not sure your point but I would agree the current generation of young people seem much more informed and aware of the issues than when I was that age.



I generally try to respond for folks to respond to me, at least out of politeness if nothing else. And I am rather amused at how the question is being avoided.

What I mean is young people, say 15 to 20, have way less sex than they did in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and even the first decade of 2000.

Kids are less in a hurry to assume adult roles and behaviour. It seems logical that kids likely to be homosexual have more time to reflect on the ramifications of this, not that it necessary discourages them.

The first part of my statement is fact and the second is my inference.
As to responding, it is your right, yet intojoy is a waste of time because he is not a serious debater.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

What I mean is young people, say 15 to 20, have way less sex than they did in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and even the first decade of 2000.

Kids are less in a hurry to assume adult roles and behaviour. It seems logical that kids likely to be homosexual have more time to reflect on the ramifications of this, not that it necessary discourages them.

Oh, I agree completely. Seems to be the trend through most of the Western World. With a beneficial reduction in teen pregnancies and abortion as a result. I begin to wonder if we are going to have a problem with parents waiting too late to have a family and but the medical science I think is up to that.

The first part of my statement is fact and the second is my inference.
As to responding, it is your right, yet intojoy is a waste of time because he is not a serious debater.

Thank you for the information. I'm still learning the aspects of the posters here but as I get to know folks, I'll adjust my responses accordingly.

 

[ok doser]

....intojoy is a waste of time because he is not a serious debater.

he's an interesting read and he enjoys stirring the pot :thumb:

 

[Danoh]

True enough but it doesn't mean they work either. Given the potential negative consequences, the state has a legitimate role in protecting minors from treatments when the available evidence shows that the treatment is more likely to do harm than good.

If conversion therapy groups want to prove otherwise they need to do the hard work to prove that their therapies are beneficial and convince the medical community.

Regarding your 2nd point there: I do not subscribe to the viewscans approaches of many of the so called "conversion therapy" groups.

Because I understand the basis of one or another of their various errors.

As for your 1st point: something much along the line of what I figured out while playing that Pac Man video game - about some sort of a video game possibly being a means of helping the so called "Schizophrenic" was later proven viable.

My point was and is that where most of the various people attempting to address so called "same-sex attraction" issues are each looking at it from is going to impact both what they see and what they don't see, concerning the various aspects of these issues - normal, or not, born that way, or not, made that way, or not, solveable, or not, via this or that approach, or not, and so on.

Some, for example, have not only repeatedly fail to see I am not actually talking about Schizophrenia, but have also repeatedly failed to see that what is actually going on within their own minds is that they have basically reached the limits of their understanding on these things.

Doesn't make one stupid, or what have you.

Just merely speaks of, or reveals through their words, that such have basically reached the limits of where such look at things from, and as a result, what such will be able to see, or not - even when trying to see where another is coming from.

Just another day in the world of human beings interacting with one another, and or attempting to.

As fraught with all sorts of issues as that can often be observed being.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Regarding your 2nd point there: I do not subscribe to the viewscans approaches of many of the so called "conversion therapy" groups.

Because I understand the basis of one or another of their various errors.

As for your 1st point: something much along the line of what I figured out while playing that Pac Man video game - about some sort of a video game possibly being a means of helping the so called "Schizophrenic" was later proven viable.

My point was and is that where most of the various people attempting to address so called "same-sex attraction" issues are each looking at it from is going to impact both what they see and what they don't see, concerning the various aspects of these issues - normal, or not, born that way, or not, made that way, or not, solveable, or not, via this or that approach, or not, and so on.

Some, for example, have not only repeatedly fail to see I am not actually talking about Schizophrenia, but have also repeatedly failed to see that what is actually going on within their own minds is that they have basically reached the limits of their understanding on these things.

Doesn't make one stupid, or what have you.

Just merely speaks of, or reveals through their words, that such have basically reached the limits of where such look at things from, and as a result, what such will be able to see, or not - even when trying to see where another is coming from.

Just another day in the world of human beings interacting with one another, and or attempting to.

As fraught with all sorts of issues as that can often be observed being.

Dude, if you actually managed to converse without the indirect condescension then it would make communication a lot smoother. Never mind trying to tell others about what their "limits" are. I addressed the schizophrenia aspect directly because it was apt to do so. If all you're going to do is lecture about how people are failing to see your supposed "point" and denigrate their ability to understand anything on a tangential level then be my guest, although why you'd want to join the ranks of "Pompous Blowhard Inc" is anyone's guess.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

....
As fraught with all sorts of issues as that can often be observed being.

That very observational subjectivity, if I am following you correctly, is exactly why we have a scientific and peer review process for these things. Why it is essential to document the hell out of both your methods and observations, have independent parties review that documentation and repeat your results.

 

[intojoy]

Even if one is born with a homo gene, they still need to repent of the sin, seek God for deliverance. Selah


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[Arthur Brain]

Even if one is born with a homo gene, they still need to repent of the sin, seek God for deliverance. Selah


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Hmm, repent of something they had no say or choice in. About as much sense as to be expected from a carrot cake I suppose...

 

[Danoh]

That very observational subjectivity, if I am following you correctly, is exactly why we have a scientific and peer review process for these things. Why it is essential to document the hell out of both your methods and observations, have independent parties review that documentation and repeat your results.

True.

At the same time, often the world of science and medicine is much like that of other worlds of exploration on one thing or another - each is not only populated with people with many different lens and approaches each of which are rightly very personal to each individual at some points - but is also just often populated with some very insecure individuals.

All of which at times, ironicly, either bogs down forward progress for a time, or other times actually speeds up forward progress in one area or another, in a right direction.

Other times, some great leap forward is made some by lone individual here and there who seemingly fit nowhere in particular- because his or her worldview or model of things simply did not fit the status quo's "settled" and or thus "accredited last word" on a thing.

Case in point...

"Who would want to speak into a black box..." - the then world renowned "accredited" expert on tele-communication "through a wire": Western Union, turning down the opportunity offered them by Alexander Graham Bell, to be the first with him to take tele-phone (or tele-voice) communication "through a wire" to the masses.

"The rest," as they say, "is history."

But back to the subject at a level closer to its surface: same sex attraction.

Well, just a bit closer to its surface...

Question: where sexual attraction is concerned, what "sex" are babies?

As much as I have observed behaviour in human beings for it might point back to when it is so called "scientifically" observed, none.

I believe the answer to that kind of a question and where it leads, or fails to, plays a role in helping get to the bottom of this hetero and or same sex attraction question.

And again, in life in general, getting to the bottom of one thing or another, or not, always goes back to where one is looking at things from to begin with.

 

[Arthur Brain]

True.

At the same time, often the world of science and medicine is much like that of other worlds of exploration on one thing or another - each is not only populated with people with many different lens and approaches each of which are rightly very personal to each individual at some points - but is also just often populated with some very insecure individuals.

All of which at times, ironicly, either bogs down forward progress for a time, or other times actually speeds up forward progress in one area or another, in a right direction.

Other times, some great leap forward is made some by lone individual here and there who seemingly fit nowhere in particular- because his or her worldview or model of things simply did not fit the status quo's "settled" and or thus "accredited last word" on a thing.

Case in point...

"Who would want to speak into a black box..." - the then world renowned "accredited" expert on tele-communication "through a wire": Western Union, turning down the opportunity offered them by Alexander Graham Bell, to be the first with him to take tele-phone (or tele-voice) communication "through a wire" to the masses.

"The rest," as they say, "is history."

But back to the subject at a level closer to its surface: same sex attraction.

Well, just a bit closer to its surface...

Question: where sexual attraction is concerned, what "sex" are babies?

As much as I have observed behaviour in human beings for it might point back to when it is so called "scientifically" observed, none.

I believe the answer to that kind of a question and where it leads, or fails to, plays a role in helping get to the bottom of this hetero and or same sex attraction question.

And again, in life in general, getting to the bottom of one thing or another, or not, always goes back to where one is looking at things from to begin with.

Simple question. Have you ever chosen to be attracted to somebody? Or was that merely something out of your control as a lot of things are like instinctual reactions?