Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal

[Danoh]

Well, I don't reduce people to their sexual attractions as if that's what identifies them as a person anyway. They're simply terms that describe one facet of humanity but they're hardly "redundant" as such. On one level I identify as heterosexual as I'm exclusively attracted to women so on that score it's an apt term to use. In other areas it would be entirely irrelevant.

There almost isn't an issue I have not long since studied out in Scripture and or continue to, simply out of my endless curiosity with how "things of God" work, as depicted in Scripture.

I am just as well versed in the various sciences of men - especially in Behavioral Science, as it has been a life-long fascination of mine.

I continue to find though, that Scripture needs no help from the findings of secular science.

I continue to find that...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

And how that...

11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

In this, the OP's topic is no different a fascination as a study, as its actual issue is nothing new in so old a collection of Books as Genesis through Revelation...

And what I have found is that Scripture "identifies" people as either lost or saved, as either sinner or saint, as either in the flesh, or in the Spirit - in short, as either being in Adam, or as being in Christ.

All else is said by Scripture to result, or manifest from, the one or the other of those two "identities."

In this regard, the Believer, regardless of his "temptation in my flesh" (as the Apostle Paul put that) is to view him or herself and other Believers, neither through the lens of his or her Behaviour, nor through the lens of its lack thereof, rather, through the lens that Scripture asserts is to be the Believer's lens: the lens of the Identity given him or her, IN Christ.

Case in point, one aspect of the issue at issue for Paul in his addressing of Peter and company as described in Galatians 2, was this issue of Identity.

Of Peter and company's unbecoming conduct or Behaviour towards those Gentiles there, as if the Law had not only proven Peter and company "sinners of the Gentiles...also" but as if the finished work or Behavior of Christ alone, had not had to be the case on both their behalf, and in each their stead.

In this "homosexuality" is no different an issue as a temptation some Believers struggle withn in contrast to their Identity in Christ, than that of the temptation just as often experienced by the "heterosexual" against his or her Identity in Christ.

In fact, in the gospels, where Christ is depicted saying and doing things meant to bring the issue of the flesh to even greater light, He is depicted as having noted things along that line, like the following...

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That having been an extension of, and towards the following...

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

As on the following, example of those two issues...

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

On this, your supposedly "accredited science" has nothing to contribute to that, other than proving itself each time, its being nothing more than more of the same old, same old of Genesis 3's infamous "Yea, hath God said?"

You assert you are a Believer.

Well then, here is your owner's manual to ALL issues...

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All else, is anything but that.

At least for the Believer.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Not mad at you, mind you - Romans 5:6-8.

Just that it is time you stand by the Book you assert you hold to the Truth of...alone.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Arthur Brain]

There almost isn't an issue I have not long since studied out in Scripture and or continue to, simply out of my endless curiosity with how "things of God" work, as depicted in Scripture.

I am just as well versed in the various sciences of men - especially in Behavioral Science, as it has been a life-long fascination of mine.

I continue to find though, that Scripture needs no help from the findings of secular science.

I continue to find that...

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

And how that...

11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

In this, the OP's topic is no different a fascination as a study, as its actual issue is nothing new in so old a collection of Books as Genesis through Revelation...

And what I have found is that Scripture "identifies" people as either lost or saved, as either sinner or saint, as either in the flesh, or in the Spirit - in short, as either being in Adam, or as being in Christ.

All else is said by Scripture to result, or manifest from, the one or the other of those two "identities."

In this regard, the Believer, regardless of his "temptation in my flesh" (as the Apostle Paul put that) is to view him or herself and other Believers, neither through the lens of his or her Behaviour, nor through the lens of its lack thereof, rather, through the lens that Scripture asserts is to be the Believer's lens: the lens of the Identity given him or her, IN Christ.

Case in point, one aspect of the issue at issue for Paul in his addressing of Peter and company as described in Galatians 2, was this issue of Identity.

Of Peter and company's unbecoming conduct or Behaviour towards those Gentiles there, as if the Law had not only proven Peter and company "sinners of the Gentiles...also" but as if the finished work or Behavior of Christ alone, had not had to be the case on both their behalf, and in each their stead.

In this "homosexuality" is no different an issue as a temptation some Believers struggle withn in contrast to their Identity in Christ, than that of the temptation just as often experienced by the "heterosexual" against his or her Identity in Christ.

In fact, in the gospels, where Christ is depicted saying and doing things meant to bring the issue of the flesh to even greater light, He is depicted as having noted things along that line, like the following...

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That having been an extension of, and towards the following...

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

As on the following, example of those two issues...

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

On this, your supposedly "accredited science" has nothing to contribute to that, other than proving itself each time, its being nothing more than more of the same old, same old of Genesis 3's infamous "Yea, hath God said?"

You assert you are a Believer.

Well then, here is your owner's manual to ALL issues...

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All else, is anything but that.

At least for the Believer.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Not mad at you, mind you - Romans 5:6-8.

Just that it is time you stand by the Book you assert you hold to the Truth of...alone.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

I don't assert to be what you describe, I'm certainly not what you would probably consider "orthodox" and the like so quoting reams of scripture isn't going to help and people do it all the time as it is to justify whatever doctrinal belief they happen to hold to, be it MAD, JW, Calvinist etc. This isn't a "religious" thread.

What I'm asserting is that quack therapy masquerading under science should be outlawed so that people and especially children and the vulnerable should not be forced into practices that can only cause harm to those subjected to it.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

The basic issue is the vast majority of mental health professionals as represented by over 30 professional organizations worldwide have condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and likely to do more harm to the subject than benefit. Now some can argue politics in these different agencies as much as they want but that is the current standing of the profession.

The various groups that promote and provide these therapies contest that but they refuse to the hard work necessary to prove that they are right. They don't do the hard research necessary to document and publish peer-reviewed studies that would show that they work.

And then, we have many young people who are at a very sensitive and confusing time in their life entering these programs. Quite often they are entering the programs due to pressure from their parents and others.

This latter point is very important because even if these programs work, they are only going to work for someone who is intensely motivated to succeed. If they enter the program because someone else encouraged them, they will most likely fail with significant negative consequences for the person and his family.

All these reasons are why states are taking the appropriate action of banning these therapies for minors. It is not a matter of how bad homosexuality may or may not be, it is a matter of is the so-called cure safe.

 

[Arthur Brain]

The basic issue is the vast majority of mental health professionals as represented by over 30 professional organizations worldwide have condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and likely to do more harm to the subject than benefit. Now some can argue politics in these different agencies as much as they want but that is the current standing of the profession.

The various groups that promote and provide these therapies contest that but they refuse to the hard work necessary to prove that they are right. They don't do the hard research necessary to document and publish peer-reviewed studies that would show that they work.

And then, we have many young people who are at a very sensitive and confusing time in their life entering these programs. Quite often they are entering the programs due to pressure from their parents and others.

This latter point is very important because even if these programs work, they are only going to work for someone who is intensely motivated to succeed. If they enter the program because someone else encouraged them, they will most likely fail with significant negative consequences for the person and his family.

All these reasons are why states are taking the appropriate action of banning these therapies for minors. It is not a matter of how bad homosexuality may or may not be, it is a matter of is the so-called cure safe.

The evidence of such practices are that they simply don't work and that's not even addressing the more extreme and unlawful ones that could qualify as torture. The various groups that might contest the rulings won't bring any peer reviewed evidence to the contrary because there isn't any, certainly not in credible circles anyway. This is why they're being systematically shut down and only the likes of NARTH and the like are feebly insisting that being gay can be cured. In fact sometimes some of these "ex gays" have ties with the likes of NARTH. I know, such a shock eh?

 

[Kit the Coyote]

The evidence of such practices are that they simply don't work and that's not even addressing the more extreme and unlawful ones that could qualify as torture. The various groups that might contest the rulings won't bring any peer reviewed evidence to the contrary because there isn't any, certainly not in credible circles anyway. This is why they're being systematically shut down and only the likes of NARTH and the like are feebly insisting that being gay can be cured. In fact sometimes some of these "ex gays" have ties with the likes of NARTH. I know, such a shock eh?

I think the medical concensus is likely right about the worth of these programs but we have to allow the possibility that maybe one of them does work. The problem is if NARTH and the like want to prove it they have to do the HARD work to prove it and convince the medical community. They need to do the following:

Establish a single treatment methodology that they think will work. Not the mass mix of stuff they have now.

Do serious documentation on the treatment subjects, including an evaluation that provides a baseline measurement of their sexual orientation. Any results are meaningless if you don't know a bisexual from a homosexual. An evaluation method that doesn't depend on the subject's feeling would be critical.

Document the treatment and continually evaluate the subject's sexual orientation for a degree of change.

After treatment, follow the subjects to measure recidivism.

Document the process and result and get it peer reviewed.

This is hard work and will take years but if their programs work like they claim the should be able to do this.

AND until they do that hard work, minors should be protected from what the current evidence says is a dangerous treatment.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I think the medical concensus is likely right about the worth of these programs but we have to allow the possibility that maybe one of them does work. The problem is if NARTH and the like want to prove it they have to do the HARD work to prove it and convince the medical community. They need to do the following:

Establish a single treatment methodology that they think will work. Not the mass mix of stuff they have now.

Do serious documentation on the treatment subjects, including an evaluation that provides a baseline measurement of their sexual orientation. Any results are meaningless if you don't know a bisexual from a homosexual. An evaluation method that doesn't depend on the subject's feeling would be critical.

Document the treatment and continually evaluate the subject's sexual orientation for a degree of change.

After treatment, follow the subjects to measure recidivism.

Document the process and result and get it peer reviewed.

This is hard work and will take years but if their programs work like they claim the should be able to do this.

AND until they do that hard work, minors should be protected from what the current evidence says is a dangerous treatment.

I reckon the current scientific consensus has it right on the button but fair enough. If there is any validity to the notion that people can be treated in such a way that their orientation can be changed then sure, let's see it set out, all the steps involved, the processes adopted and all on record for stringent peer review.

That ain't gonna happen because those who peddle this garbage know that their "methodology" has been proven not to work already via peer review and that's why so called "therapy" has and is being been shut down. There's no actual 'hard work' involved, not that there was any to begin with because multiplying something by zero always ends with the same result and these people know this but don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[Eeset]

Why would anyone advocate a treatment program for a healthy person? Isn't that the same thing as saying gays are mentally ill?

 

[ok doser]

of course gays are mentally ill

 

[Danoh]

I don't assert to be what you describe, I'm certainly not what you would probably consider "orthodox" and the like so quoting reams of scripture isn't going to help and people do it all the time as it is to justify whatever doctrinal belief they happen to hold to, be it MAD, JW, Calvinist etc. This isn't a "religious" thread.

What I'm asserting is that quack therapy masquerading under science should be outlawed so that people and especially children and the vulnerable should not be forced into practices that can only cause harm to those subjected to it.

We're basically in agreement as to your points in that second paragraph.

As for your points in your first paragraph, we will have to disagree with one another.

At the same time, on another issue, I, for example, hold a Pro-Life view.

However, I do not believe it is my business to attempt to legislate any of my views on people who do not hold said views.

All one can do is engage in the exchange of one's views with others and hear theirs out - even when they do not care to hear one's own views out.

For even within actual Pauline Christianity (not what is often represented on TOL by some), the Apostle Paul while calling out his own, at the same time noted to his own...

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

Meaning even within actual Pauline Christianity things come down to "in the end, it's between you and your faith as to God."

Likewise is the case as to issues between a "Believer" and "non-Believer" as far as where the "Believer" is to be concerned in the end.

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. 17:33 So Paul departed from among them.

 

[Danoh]

of course gays are mentally ill

Scripture refers to all such "temptations in the flesh" as "inordinate affection" and "deceitful lusts" - in ALL humanity.

But Romans 5:6-8.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Why would anyone advocate a treatment program for a healthy person? Isn't that the same thing as saying gays are mentally ill?

The advocates of these programs think so but again, even if they were right, it doesn't mean their treatment is worth crap. There was a mental health treatment dating back to ancient days called trepanning. It is a surgical procedure that drills a hole into the skull. The original practice was to let the demons that were thought to cause mental illness out. But the practice, though highly illegal, is still done to this day and it was one of the original 'conversion therapies' for homosexuals.

So a question I would ask is should parents be allowed to drill holes in their children's heads to save them from homosexuality. If the answer is no then obviously the effectiveness of the treatment matters.

 

[Arthur Brain]

The advocates of these programs think so but again, even if they were right, it doesn't mean their treatment is worth crap. There was a mental health treatment dating back to ancient days called trepanning. It is a surgical procedure that drills a hole into the skull. The original practice was to let the demons that were thought to cause mental illness out. But the practice, though highly illegal, is still done to this day and it was one of the original 'conversion therapies' for homosexuals.

So a question I would ask is should parents be allowed to drill holes in their children's heads to save them from homosexuality. If the answer is no then obviously the effectiveness of the treatment matters.

Some people think that schizophrenia and associated are simply demonic possession to this day as well and that there's no such thing as mental illness. Thankfully, progression has been made overall from the days doctors thought that everything could be cured with leeches...

 

[Danoh]

Some people think that schizophrenia and associated are simply demonic possession to this day as well and that there's no such thing as mental illness. Thankfully, progression has been made overall from the days doctors thought that everything could be cured with leeches...

Sometime ago, while visiting an old friend' and his dad, his dad turns out to own all these old video games.

As I had never played Pac Man, I decided to give it a whirl.

At some point as I was playing with fresh eyes, given that it was my first try at the game, it dawns on me that "here is possibly a solution to the mind of the 'Schizophrenic.'"

Sometime later, I'm watching an interview with several Neuroscientists, one of whom had been able to solve for much of the Schizophrenia he had struggled with for a time in his life.

At one point, when asked about a possible "cure" he relates that possibly a video game of some sort might help.

Made absolute sense to me, given where I look at such things from.

My point?

Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

It is what it is...

 

[intojoy]

It doesn't work and it's abusive:

The first five results on Google for "Does Conversion Therapy Work?"

https://www.livescience.com/25082-gay-conversion-therapy-facts.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstr...sion-therapy?utm_term=.tdVrmPql0N#.wkQJLo9BVN

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...rs/201801/conversion-therapy-isnt-therapy-all

https://www.quora.com/Does-voluntary-gay-conversion-therapy-work



The following five are no more positive and given that the "practices" have been roundly condemned as not only quackery but harmful in accredited scientific circles and that's there's no credible evidence that homosexuals can be "cured" anyway then what justification is there for "therapy centers" to be open anywhere at all?

Good for New Hampshire to be the latest state to outlaw such abuse but unfortunately there's still places where it's legal for minors to be forced into what is nothing other than degrading and harmful "treatment".

How can that be acceptable to anyone?

You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kit the Coyote]

My point?

Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

It is what it is...

True enough but it doesn't mean they work either. Given the potential negative consequences, the state has a legitimate role in protecting minors from treatments when the available evidence shows that the treatment is more likely to do harm than good.

If conversion therapy groups want to prove otherwise they need to do the hard work to prove that their therapies are beneficial and convince the medical community.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.

So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?

 

[ok doser]

So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?

interesting that you conflate severe physical damage (a power drill to the skull) with emotional damage



just guessing here, but are you a millennial?

a woman?

 

[Kit the Coyote]

interesting that you conflate severe physical damage (a power drill to the skull) with emotional damage



just guessing here, but are you a millennial?

a woman?

No and No.

Interesting that you avoided the questions. The reference to trepanning is just illustrating the point with a logical extreme. But the point is still valid when you limit it to the more conventional damage that occurs. When the vast majority of the medical community says these therapies are not effective and will likely do more harm than any benefit, why would you subject your son to them?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against an adult who willingly understands the issues and intensely wants to try these things doing so. But too many minors are doing it for other reasons, usually to please their parents. This type of personality conditioning will not work under those conditions and it is just a formula for ruined lives and destroyed families.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eh? Put the crack pipe down and join reality for five minutes. Honestly, is there anything besides cement in that head of yours?

What.A.Crank.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sometime ago, while visiting an old friend' and his dad, his dad turns out to own all these old video games.

As I had never played Pac Man, I decided to give it a whirl.

At some point as I was playing with fresh eyes, given that it was my first try at the game, it dawns on me that "here is possibly a solution to the mind of the 'Schizophrenic.'"

Sometime later, I'm watching an interview with several Neuroscientists, one of whom had been able to solve for much of the Schizophrenia he had struggled with for a time in his life.

At one point, when asked about a possible "cure" he relates that possibly a video game of some sort might help.

Made absolute sense to me, given where I look at such things from.

My point?

Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

It is what it is...

I have a friend with schizophrenia and I don't really see this as a valid comparison. Science has developed treatments that can keep the condition in check and hopefully one day well develop a cure altogether and other conditions such as dementia. As it stands, my friend is likely to have schizophrenia for the rest of his life and be on medication for the duration. Without it, he loses touch with reality altogether.

The point is that the research into mental health conditions and cures is proper science. The likes of conversion therapy is not, it's just quackery.