Who is the Remnant Church?

clefty

New member
Saved unto what?

Saved means different things in different contexts, Clefty!
oh boy...now what?

Adam and Eve were saved when skins were provided but were still kicked out...still died...

Heb 11 continues a list of those who believed but did not receive the promise...what was the promise Him or His gift of eternal life?

How confusing do you need to make this? Too much study has made you MAD...LOL

Under the New Covenant, salvation is when Christ returns,
right and at that time it is ACTUALLY GIVEN for ALL on condition...same as it was for Adamic Abrahamic Noah David covenants...and what? Was this not promised since Adam? And yet NOT RECEIVED? Again Heb 11...

but under the "covenant of grace" given to Paul, salvation was provided at Christ's resurrection.
yes...provided since Adam but now with His resurrection made sure by His resurrection a quarantee upon pick up...for ALL whosoever believes...

but STILL Paul writes of Sabbaths these ARE shadows and point to good things to come...as you said it was only provided at His resurrection...but at His coming is when ACTUALLY it is received...

But you divide first His kingdom and now here are trying to divide things not to be separated....at least you are consistent LOL

We who believe are saved are being saved and will receive that salvation at His coming...on condition we stay faithful...

Last I checked, Christ hasn't returned yet, but He HAS been raised from the dead...
cheeky...nice

yes but if you overcome and remain faithful and to the end or the last trump...it is provided...made sure at the resurrection...



Which hasn't happened yet...
but they ARE SAVED...you’re trying to muddy it all up claiming two differing receptions of that which scripture says is the same thing at the same time...

Israel this ekklesia in the OT wilderness was ALSO saved from Egypt and yet had to walk to the promised land...we too receive salvation and must overcome until the end...



Which He hasn't done yet.
right we are IN ROUTE to the promised land...ya dig?



Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't say new moon as well... but I understand your figure of speech.

The New Earth is part of the promise yes? Is what Isaiah is referencing in chapter 66:22-23 and well ALL flesh at that time will worship at New Moons and Sabbaths...so you in or “NOT FOR ME”?



Perhaps for those in Israel. But certainly not those in the Body of Christ.
suite yourself...Isaiah was NOT lying...your MADness is added and attempted

Oh and no one is eating unclean meat at this promised time...neat eh?



More question begging. See my previous post.
yes yes...He was at Sinai but NOT their Leader...LOL He followed Moses?



For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV
LOL there it is again...”BEING SAVED” but you claim ”but under the "covenant of grace" given to Paul, salvation was provided at Christ's resurrection”...but it is still dependent on you being faithful and His actual return...


Think about it for a moment, Clefty.

If I have a lemonade stand, and I'm selling one glass per person, people who come to the stand are being refreshed, no?

Does that mean that they're constantly drinking lemonade for the rest of the day? NO! It means once they've drank the lemonade, they're refreshed!
hmmm...and as this refreshed feeling goes away do you refuse to sell them another? LOL

Maybe you sold a lemonade SO BIG it lasts all day? IF YOU DRINK IT...that is what He did...free refills...on condition...

Or did you sell MAGIC ONE TIME ONLY REFRESHMENT FOREVER drink...unless you eat sand or otherwise defile your magic refreshment...that TOO is what He did...free refills on condition...

instead of horrible analogies with poor entrepreneurship why not use biblical examples of being refreshed...You know as when the Creator worked six days and rested the seventh day and was refreshed...and then well six more days of work and then another day of refreshment...this before the fall even...



In the same way, people were being saved at that time, but their being saved is a one time thing.
really? Ok see you are revealing how this MADness is built...all the various parts necessary...

so once saved always saved eh?

Yet another thread needed...but this MADness is on the tail end of MUCH deception over centuries of development...

Even Paul warned the branches grafted in NOT TO BOAST lest they be cut off themselves...seems right there you would understand what this ekklesia learned in the OT wilderness...once saved does NOT mean you are

Even those crying “LORD LORD did we not?” Got a surprise yes?

But like I said another long thread needed...

Ergo, the "are being saved" here is still referring to a saving that has been completed, especially now that they're long dead.
LOL... a saving that has been completed would be “are saved” Paul knew what he meant and the Greek to say it...



Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

Do the Corinthians in that verse already stand in the gospel which Paul preached to them? They who were dead in their sins, but raised in Christ Jesus?
“IF you hold fast”...so DID THEY? You did note the condition yes? Biggest little word there that IF...


By which indeed we are saved...if...unless believed in vain...you know believing but NOT OBEYING...that is belief in vain...faith without works...dead


nope...much in vain here



Which isn't a command or law that one should remain faithful.
LOL...

NOT a command to remain faithful...oh my...

so they could keep sinning? Or once saved...taking the life of another is no longer a sin? Or taking stuff from someone else is NOT stealing?

Good grief...Peter and Paul suggesting to maybe stay faithful...if you want...or not...LOL



Certainly not! But copy me as I copy Christ...establish the Law...watch out for wolves and false teachers...

Again, God's overarching kingdom includes the household of Israel, which has different house rules than does the Body of Christ.
So hmmm...a house divided DOES stand? At least your MADness is consistant...not “I am the Path” but many paths and ways...choose whatever whenever...



Paul wrote Romans 6, Mid-Acts dispensationalists did not. Go read it again, please.

Your MADness claims we CAN continue to sin that grace may abound...

You are NOT slaves to Yah His righteousness but being faithful is optional...if at all...as ”NOT FOR ME”



of course you miss it...the council met to decide what to expect from the gentiles for them to come into their fellowship and Peter says Jews are saved as gentiles are...by Faith...




Acts 13:44...oh btw Paul’s letters were to synagogues with attending gentiles...


Incorrect. Peter stated the following (transliterated Greek):

"But by the grace of the Lord Jesus, we believe to be saved, in the same manner as they also."
LOL...

“Same manner” vs “just as”...let the MAD games continue...LOL

I'd like to clarify something I said before, by using this verse to do it.

Peter here is saying that "we, Israel," here as of Acts 15, are saved in the same manner as the Gentiles, and that goes back as far as Acts 9.
further back than that...I mean this ekklesia in the OT wilderness was already full of those NOT OF JACOB who were saved...and by FAITH...just left their Egyptian homes families and friends and followed a New God into the desert...

Yahushua had 4 in His ancestors alone...who by FAITH made His Father their God His people their own...

also read Heb 11 about Abel and Noah and Enoch and Abraham all SAVED the SAME WAY...JUST AS...sorry...in the same manner

By faith...

PRIOR to Acts 9, however, the New Covenant was in effect, and those under it remain under it even after Acts 9.
phew...good...thanks for NOT separating what Yah has joined...

In other words: Those who became believers under the New Covenant remained under the New Covenant,
ummm the Jews or whoever?

while those who became believers under Paul's covenant of grace were never under under the New Covenant.
yes yes...the Sabbath makes you MAD and you claim “NOT FOR ME” got it...long time ago...learned if from that other guy who fell from heaven who also believes but does NOT obey...like you claims His ways are “NOT FOR ME”

I'm going to respond to the rest of your post in another post, as I'm having trouble with my keyboard since there's so much text in this post already.

Ok...like I said surprised you address me at all...
 

clefty

New member
Why? Because they were in the Body of Christ, Romans 7.
sure...and as Paul says here he delights in the Law as it is spiritual holy just and good...and is grateful with his mind he is keeping it...though warring with his flesh...nothing about another gospel another way...



"In the Body of Christ there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile."

Thank you for agreeing with me.
not so fast...I have that believing gentiles are copying Paul as he copied Christ...JUST AS

Sabbath...festivals...diet...letting NO ONE but the BOC judge their doing so...again why would other gentiles judge their NOT keeping New Moons? They have their own calendar makes only sense...now why would they start keeping the “Jewish” one? That would make them judge like you and others here...

Acts 15 is AFTER Acts 9, in which the Body of Christ began with Paul, and anyone who believed after Paul did is in the Body of Christ under the covenant of grace...
yours is the burden of proof and an argument from silence...

Acts 16 is AFTER Acts 15 and 9 and Romans are still upset that Paul is teaching them customs NOT lawful for Romans to observe verse 21...you think that is “do whatever?” Or were Romans MAD like you at Sabbath festivals and diets...you know “NOT FOR ME” as too JEWISH...LOL

Again at Paul’s trial NOTHING proved he changed anything...no letters presented...no witnesses claiming he taught as even Stephen was accused with false witnesses “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”...NOTHING

Paul even taught Felix righteousness self control and coming judgement Acts 24:25...and Felix like you and yours was also frightened...and wished “NOT FOR ME”...maybe later...

you really think Paul was teaching “anything goes...all grace”


Why were they obedient? Because it was a requirement for their salvation? or was it a result of them placing their faith in Christ?
BOTH...LOL...and because the Spirit led them into LOVING AS HE LOVED and JUST AS...and thus fulfilling the law...no record of their love including Sunday Ham dinners after fellowship...LOL



What was Paul NOT teaching the Gentiles that the men from Judea wanted the Gentiles do do?

Circumcize and keep the law.
Acts 15:24 right? LOL already addressed as king Jimmy adding to the Word...but yes at this time you have not responded

king Jimmy was right to insert circumcision as it NEVER WAS TAUGHT IT SAVED...

but Jimmy was wrong to insert “keep the Law” because...even in the OT wilderness strangers within thy gates received the Sabbath...and the rest...of the Law...the rest of the Law of rest...lol

That includes the dietary commandments and the sabbath and the clothing laws...
NOPE as you can NOT make a swine clean by draining it of its blood...Acts 15 was clear these things were already expected of those within thy gates...and on Sabbaths was when Moses will STILL be taught James concluded Acts 15:21

Paul wasn't teaching any of it. In fact, he was teaching to NOT keep the law or to circumcize!
not to circumcize but yet he did Timothy...then said circumcision or NOT is not the issue but it was OBEDIENCE...to what? to Him His ways or?

You seem to be concluding that "no distinction between Jew and Gentile" must mean that there is no distinction between what Paul taught and what Peter and Twelve taught, and that's just not what the text says!
well...yes that is exactly what Yahushua taught...His “follow Me”..."keep my commandments"... but you insist to misrepresent Him and claim ability to produce olives from fig branches...


How about visiting Abram, who, at the time, was a Gentile, and making Him into the father of many nations, one of which He made into a people for His name... Isra-EL...
yes...a group of people...also known as a body or assembly or congregation or church or multitude or...

In other words, no, NOT the Body of Christ.
a group of people called by His Name...a group of people with Him as their leader...I stand with Stephen who claimed it was He who was with THIS ekklesia in the OT wilderness...and He did NOT follow them...they were NOT His head...LOL



So? The qualification was "a people for His name," not "a Jew" or "Jewish"...
exactly...but it is you yours that wish to contain the New Covenant to ONLY JEWS...but since the beginning it was meant for ALL...despite what Jews want you to think...LOL


No, not "twisted."

This is what I mean by straw man vs steel man.

You're straw manning my argument.
Peter warned Paul's writings would be...and well...



Are you referring to 2 Timothy 3:10?

Because that's the only place in the Bible where "manner" and "purpose" are found in the same verse...

If not, to what are you referring?
no...I had looked up some MAD website to better understand what I am dealing with here and they used that...

but Yours is a good verse Thanks...which shows there indeed is a doctrine and manner of life...not just grace...

Oh and Perseverance...hmmm why? if once saved always saved?



Again, to what are you referring?
a MAD website if I recall...something about prophecy interrupted program for Israel put on hold...yada yada yada



Yes, a new program, one kept secret since before the creation of the world. Paul calls it a mystery kept secret.
the person Yahushua His Name and Life the TELOS the aim purpose reason for the OT...that is the revelation of a mystery nothing else...

not salvation apart from works...that was ALWAYS taught...Heb 11

your Jesuit Darby Scofield Zionism is a new program indeed...I am still unpacking this "mystery"



The remnant of Israel were the Sabbath keeping believers. What Paul's gospel was separate from was the New Covenant, which was made with the same two parties as the Old Covenant, God and Israel.
and this new covenant is just like the OLD...same law

And also ALREADY with those NOT OF JACOB...just as this new one is now...as whosoever believes shall not perish...both since Abel Andy By faith Heb 11



Question begging.
you make the covenant one of genes and DNA when Israel was NEVER but by DIVINE INTERVENTION only...



No idea what you're talking about, since "manner of purpose" isn't in the Bible.
right some MAD website was using it as a NEW way to heaven or something


your claim Paul is the first member of this NEW PROGRAM...yet he kept Sabbaths...festivals...”copy me AS I copy Christ"...or did he lie?

Paul told the gentiles in Acts 13 to come back NEXT SABBATH nothing about next day Sunday or mid week services on Mars Hill...and next week they were there

tarried to keep Passover Acts 20:6 hurried to keep Pentecost 20:16 instructed gentile Corinthians to keep the feast with unleavened bread of spirit and truth 1 Cor 5:7-8

you really think he could claim innocence at ALL his trials if he DID NOT worship in accordance to the Law? or taught others to NOT do so? They could have used his letters as evidence if INDEED he taught SABBATH was done away with etc...but NOTHING


Paul was there for the Acts 15 council...said NOTHING when instructions were concluded to make sure gentiles knew NOT to offer clean meats to idols...and to make sure CLEAN meats were drained of blood and NOT strangled...

imagine gentiles bringing swine into synagogue potluck after hearing Moses taught every Sabbath..."but but but it was NOT offered to Zeus...and I drained all its blood..." LOL...how rude do you think these cosmopolitan cultured Greeks are? They WANTED to "follow Me"... UNLIKE you and yours Who claim His ways are "NOT FOR ME"


Acts 24:14 "I do confess to you, however, that I worship the God of our fathers according to the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets"

impossible for Paul to claim that if he taught the Law abolished or even not for gentiles...

nobody countered his claim and no evidence was brought that he did NOT follow the Law...or teach others not to



Again, cite?
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:"

myriads are the thousands...tens of thousands



yes ODD that the Acts 15 council is unaware of this NEW PROGRAM its MADness but ruled that believers actually "follow Me"



The REASON FOR the Acts 15 council was BECAUSE of the new program given to Paul.

Things that differ, ya know?
ummm...Paul was there and said NOTHING to DISPUTE that gentiles were to KEEP hearing Moses every Sabbath and NOT bring HAM dinners for after hearing Moses every Sabbath fellowship



Your point?
yes thank you...oh you mean to state AGAIN that James concluded Moses would CONTINUE to be read in every city on every Sabbath in the synagogues these gentiles were visiting...and now who were NOT to commit sexual immorality and 3 OT dietary laws...and on every Sabbath to hear Moses and NOW THE NEW PROGRAM OF THE HOPE AND GLORY OF ISRAEL...you know the One resurrected...and FOR ALL...WHO SAID FOLLOW ME...whosoever believes



Paul was there when the believing wild olive branches which were grafted into the root and trunk were given instructions NOT to bring Ham or be sexually immoral if they wished to hear Moses preached every Sabbath...



Paul and Barnabas spoke of the miracle amongst the gentiles said NOTHING about the 5 "house rules for fellowship"



Saying it doesn't make it so.
remember that when you claim another gospel another christ another way



Question begging. Take the blinders off, Clefty.

Under both the Old and New Covenants, a Gentile was free to enter into a relationship with God, but He had to become a proselyte to do so.
Already in the OT wilderness it is ONE LAW for native and foreigner ALIKE...notice how the foreigner remains foreigner even to receive LAND...and NOT becoming a Jew

only to receive the meat of Passover was it required for circumcision...the unleavened bread remained available...how is THAT for foreshadowing? “I am the LIVING Bread...for ALL“ this is why Paul writes col 2:17 these ARE shadows of good things to come...

Under the covenant of Grace, a Gentile no longer has to become a proselyte.
you mean to claim no longer has to keep the Sabbath...LOL your hatred for His ways is noted...king Jimmy got it 1/2 right...no to circumcising as it never was mandated but of course keep the law...as if only sexual immorality and the Sabbath were the only 2 laws required of the 10



Things that are different are not the same...
He JOINED Jew and Gentile...made them the same...HE saw NO DISTINCTION...you insist a difference and rebelling against Him His way claiming they are "NOT FOR ME"



Of course I do!



Right, they (the Gentiles) became proselytes.

Yet, in the Body of Christ, a Gentile does not have to become a proselyte Jew, he just has to trust in Christ.
what was that about repeating something is not making it true?

Trusting in Christ compels obedience to LIVE AS HE LIVED...you would have it be like Satan who trusts IN HIM but DOES NOT OBEY? LOL

Things that are different...
were made the same...by Him...let no man separate...



Question begging won't help your argument, Clefty.

NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE is Israel referred to as a body or as having a head.

ONLY THE BODY OF CHRIST!

Things that are different...
covered that...my wife has a body...hope yours does too...

as if a body of people of faith has no head...LOL

hey!... TRINITY aint anywhere neither but but but...LOL

being born again was a new concept too...

What is NOT in scripture is a new program where a group is above the law...and has their own way in...


Uh, yes, he did.

This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised;and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant.He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” - Genesis 17:10-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV

And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it.But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it.A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it.In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones.All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.” - Exodus 12:43-49 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV

Yes only Passover...required circumcision...and not all that were saved from Egypt were circumcised...but still in the body...

but look

Exodus 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

BTW Egyptians also circumcised... are they saved too? Moses was not...


Yes, under the Old Covenant.
right good you admit strangers within thy gates received the Sabbath...not being cut they were still strangers and STILL RECEIVED SABBATH...the irony

Not the covenant of grace given to Paul, which has no such requirement.
yup...review Acts 15 council where 5 things were still required...oh and well the rest of the 10 commandments too? Or this NEW PROGRAM allows for killing stealing lying coveting worshipping another god making idols blaspheming His name dishonoring parents?



well if you agreed to that the NT Jew forgot/ignored/rejected their purpose to be a light to the WORLD then if the JEWS HAD NOT then it would be that ALL would come to worship as it was supposed to be in the OT...but already there a monopoly of His house was begun...had Jews remembered they were to be a blessing to the World they would have NOT rejected Yahushua's message or Him



Rather, it was in their trust in the law, as opposed to their faith in God.

What did Paul say?

Romans 9:31-10:4
right...in circumcision and not FAITH...faith does NOT annul the Law however...please recall that Romans 3:31[quote



for one Judging rightly you sure don't know the word...LOL...

1 Kings 12...King Rehoboam taxed until civil war...just like Samuel warned I Samuel 8 Samuel tells them that the king would take all the good things for himself and make them his servants



Yes, under the Old Covenant.

Not under Paul's covenant of Grace.
Acts 15 came after Acts 9 right? so well gentiles are still doing the 10 and dietary laws...



Check the context, please.
OT promised strangers land...NT did too...heavenly land and in the NEW EARTH



Which was under the Old Covenant God had with Israel, which included the Sabbath...

Not under Paul's covenant of grace.
Even at his trials those arguing as you do now "Paul teaches Jesus changed...or NEW PROGRAM NOW" were NOT PROVEN...he was innocent and worshipped in accordance to customs

Acts 28:17"Three days later he called together the local Jewish leaders.When they had assembled, Paul said to them: “My brothers although I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our ancestors, I was arrested in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans."

You think Paul's NEW PROGRAM was complicit to Jewish customs? LOL

Acts 28:21They replied, “We have not received any letters from Judea concerning you, and none of our people who have come from there has reported or said anything bad about you."

You don't think Jews in Rome would have heard about Paul teaching a NEW PROGRAM..."Sabbath suspended abolished eat SWINE NOW" LOL

They about tore each other up just arguing over resurrection and Pharisees found NO EVIL in Paul Acts 23:9 you think Pharisees are ok with Paul's NEW PROGRAM? LOL

Acts 23 and 28 are after 9 yes? NOTHING about a NEW PROGRAM but warnings against another gospel another way...being robbed of your reward by philosophy and wolves...





More question begging.

Stop it.

Read the following passage carefully.

Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. - Romans 2:17-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV

Who is Paul talking to?
to the Roman Jews...how does he end? Circumcised hearts and "inner Jew" minds...

Law never saved...wasn't designed to do so...just point out sin and need of Savior...MERCY rather than sacrifice...



No, not "established," but rather "establish."

The law is a tutor. The unbeliever rejects God and so rejects His law, so a believer, when witnessing, should establish the law, to show that the unbeliever is condemned and in need of a Savior.
ummmm BINGO...and thus we are to establish THE SAME LAW...points out the SAME SAVIOR...

the Law is a tutor and if your tutor teaches you Math 2+2=4...does any of that change once you graduate? does it become 5 or the color red? NO it remains 4...



Who is Paul speaking to?

(Hint: It's not the same group as in the latter part of chapter 2 of Romans.)
when 3:31? to romans Jews and gentiles...BOTH are to establish this Law to represent Him His Ways and need for salvation...your NEW PROGRAM group has NO LAW to show their need of a Savior? LOL



False.

Don't take things out of the context they are in.

There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Body of Christ.
BECAUSE THEY KEEP THE SAME RULES...

for centuries after Romans thought this sect a Jewish one...BECAUSE THEY REJECTED JEWISH CUSTOMS? LOL hardly...

it took a few more centuries of anti Semitism to fully divorce "the Way" from all things Jewish...ask Constantine..

However, when comparing the Body of Christ to the believers in the New Covenant, the former is made up of Jew and Gentile,
yes KEEPING THE LAW...let no one judge you but the BOC...gentiles are grafted INTO a PRIOR root and trunk and MATCHING branches NOT cut off for UNBELIEF...BOTH in Him are citizens of Israel...BOTH in Him are joined into a building a holy temple...He destroyed the middle wall of separation and abolished Jewish enmity for "unclean" goyim...they are ALL circumcised in heart and "inward jew" of Christ MIND...

whereas the latter is made up of only Jews and Proselyte Jews.
again KEEPING THE SAME LAW...inheriting the SAME promises



Which were Jews and proselytes... No Gentiles...
branches which remain were of ISRAEL a remnant...and of an Israel already having those NOT OF JACOB...Jews were cut off for unbelief...in Him not for giving up on Sabbath or clean meats..

Romans 9:8 “that is, it is NOT the children of the flesh who are children of Yah but the children of promise ARE REGARDED AS DESCENDANTS”

Israel was always by promise...not DNA

What's your point?
that a blind pagan could find a distinction between YOUR MAD NEW PROGRAM which was not keeping the Law and frying up bacon and the Branches that were NOT CUT OFF which did NOT fry up some bacon...

Whereas Yah could NOT find a distinction...because BOTH branches that were NOT cut off and the new branches grafted IN produced the SAME fruits...NEITHER FRIED THE BACON



I want you to believe what the Bible says.
ditto...NOW WHAT?

The Bible says that YHWH made a covenant with Israel, then said He would make a New Covenant with Israel,
and He did...put the SAME LAWS into circumcised hearts and INWARD JEW minds...neat eh? And In both covenants ISRAEL included those NOT OF JACOB...also neat eh?

and then it says that because unbelieving Israel would not believe, He cut them off
unbelieving in what Him the HOPE OF ISRAEL or their laws? I say they rejected Him NOT their laws...is why they were cut off...despite keeping the laws...

and grafted in the Gentiles with a new covenant called grace,
yup and once grafted IN they produced THE SAME FRUIT...cuz well they were FAMILY now...no longer strangers but citizens of Israel, joined with Jews into a NEW MAN and NEW BUILDING HOLY...and Acts 15 just clarified how clean meats could still be made unclean...so please wipe your feet coming INTO OUR CLUB...which the gentiles were HAPPY TO DO...NOT like you and yours in insolent and indolent rebellion against His Ways...claiming "NOT FOR ME"


and Paul called it a mystery kept secret.
yup that Yahushua was the TELOS of the WHOLE OT...the purpose the aim the goal...is WHY we are to FOLLOW HIM...

Yahushua is the hope of Israel...that is the mystery revealed...The Who Enoch walked with...the Who Abraham washed the feet of...Who Jacob wrestled with? now finally that Head from the beginning when the body was still in the OT wilderness was revealed...

But yes yes of course receive grace and be saved first...no mystery there...apart from the law...duh

FAITH and then WORKS...and then to do works He prepared for us...to ESTABLISH the LAW "to show that the unbeliever is condemned and in need of a Savior"

nicely put BTW...



Believes what?
who Satan? Oh he believes everything we do...That He is Son of Yah...Is the Savior...Is loving and merciful...and yet he DOES NOT OBEY...cuz His ways are "NOT FOR ME"

Also...

Comparing Mid-Acts Dispensationalists, who are believers, to Satan now?

Shame on you.
LOL...why? Satan believes, has faith, even received GRACE...was NOT KILLED but given his OWN PLANET...

also not my fault he too does NOT obey Him His ways but claims all that "NOT FOR ME" and he TOO still wants a temple built and TEMPORAL POWER...hmmmm…he too wants to rule the world for 1000 years or more...LOL



Paul, not Mid-Acts Dispensationalists, says we are not under the law, but under grace.
would we even need grace if not under law? Do NOT boast or you TOO will be cut off from the trunk and root you were grafted INTO...and for the same reason "I am safe no need for repentance and grace"

Why do you kick against the goad?
who me? Paul taught me the Law is good shows me my need for a Savior...and DAILY...not just one gulp and BINGO refreshed forever never again another drink of lemonade...LOL



Define "all."

All in the New Covenant?

All believers ever?

All humans?

The former I would agree with, but the latter two you would be hard pressed to assert.
the WHOSOEVER believeth shall NOT perish that's who...

and in believing they of course LOVE AS HE LOVED which fulfills the Law...and well now IN HIM they live as He did...and IN HIS IMAGE they keep the LAW AS HE DID...as Paul said "copy me as I copy Christ" and to the gentiles he said it...



Did you notice that adoption is only mentioned by Paul in the New Testament?
and? you mean the word "adoption" Cuz plenty of evidence strangers lived within their gates...Remember the Sabbath? yup they adopted that too...Ruth adopted Naomi’s people and God...in fact 4 Gentiles in the Family ancestry of Yahushua...grafted INTO...

Never by any of the circumcision authors.
LOL...”circumcision authors“...you mean the OT...yeah NEVER any ALL Nations worshipping Yah there...LOL...no Sabbath to strangers within the gate...the only one of 10 which includes their adoption...

Things that are different...
and what He has brought together let no man separate...



How can it be the same if adoption isn't mentioned by any of the Twelve, let alone the circumcision authors?

Mystery right?

Lev 19:34 The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.

Exodus 12:49 The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”

Leviticus 24:22 There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord your God.’”

Numbers 9:14If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the Lord, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.’”

Numbers 15:14If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, just as you do so he shall do.

Numbers 15:15As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the Lord.

Numbers 15:16There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”

Numbers 15:29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

Deuteronomy 1:16 “Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, ‘Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

Deuteronomy 24:14“You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Leviticus 18:26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

Exodus 12:19 Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you

Deuteronomy 5:14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Leviticus 16:29“This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

Leviticus 17:8“Then you shall say to them, ‘Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

Leviticus 17:10‘And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 22:18 “Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the Lord for a burnt offering"

There are more...but I think you see how

Ezekiel 47:23 has them receive land...as strangers sojourning NOT cut

The condition for adoption is belief.
Israel was under the SAME condition...literally Jacob by belief was renamed Israel...by belief he was even born...nothing normal DNA about him...Israel was always a Divine construct

both covenants were by faith first...and then who are you a slave to?...Paul says slave to Him His ways...even told the gentiles that...A SLAVE TO Yah...sounds NOTHING like your new program of insolent indolence...GRACE ALONE...faith compels works...His works as He worked...and rested...

... In the Body of Christ...
belief in the BOC?....hmmm yes many do believe in the church to advocate for and save them...but that is NOT scripture...ONLY HE can save...believe in Him His ways...and NOT the BOC whoever claims to be it

Things that are different...
I will stick to the One Who says "I CHANGE NOT" thanks...and Yah made NO DISTINCTION as it was when as Stephen called it THIS ekklesia was in the OT wilderness...already full of those NOT OF JACOB...and with ONE LAW to establish...”copy me AS I copy Yahushua “ Paul instructed the gentiles...

your new program is led by another who claimed His ways “NOT FOR ME”
 

clefty

New member
clefty I will reply when I get home this weekend.

Given that these exchanges are so long I hope not to miss that Paul writes of this body as “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit” 1 Cor 12:13 which is a continuation from when this ekklesia was in the OT wilderness “and drank the same spiritual drink for they drank from the Spiritual rock that accompanied them and that rock was Christ” 1 Cor 10:4...and already full of those NOT OF JACOB...

Please notice verse 5 “But with MOST of them Yah was not well pleased for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness”

Did you note it was NOT “with ALL of them...” so there remained a remnant...of that Body which He was already Head of in the OT wilderness when we received the LIVING oracles...as per Stephen Acts 7:38

So the remnant STILL contain the LIVING oracles...as they ARE shadows of things to come...even still...let no one judge you your keeping these LIVING oracles...but the Body of Christ...the remnant STILL living these oracles...
 

Pipiripi

Member
Hi friends, the remnant church of God the last God FEW remnant people. They are from Revelation 12:17 and 14:12
Have a sweet Sabbath day of the Lord
 

clefty

New member
Hi friends, the remnant church of God the last God FEW remnant people. They are from Revelation 12:17 and 14:12
Have a sweet Sabbath day of the Lord

Back at ya...

that TGIF feeling is your body’s way of saying it wants to rest ...

be blessed rested and refreshed
 

Pipiripi

Member
If a person gets circumcised in the flesh, then they are not a Jew inwardly.




No. They are NOT keeping the special days and are not getting circumcised in the flesh BUT ARE BEING TALKED INTO IT AFTER they are SAVED and Paul HAS TO FORM CHRIST in them ALL OVER AGAIN because they have FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Galatians 4:19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

My friend go and see again with which person Paul is talking to.

There is a debate about Sabbath, go on YouTube and take a look maybe you can learn something.

Jim Staley/Chris Rosenberg.
 

clefty

New member
You are helpless, 2Thessalonians 2:10-12 is for you. Who are the people of Revelation 12:17 and 14:12? Are you one of them?

Welcome to the divided kingdom of Yah...

between those that do wish to Be MORE like Him His Ways vs those that claim the OT is NOT FOR ME

you see? Sabbath makes people so MAD they claim they are NOT part of well...His people...although they believe they are SAVED...

they LOOT the promise but reject the very Law which enshrines IT and secures their right to it by adoption which He guaranteed at the cross...

they are SQUATTERS in His kingdom insisting they have no house rules or chores...

faith for them makes void the Law despite Paul’s insistence we establish it and that we copy him as he copied Christ...JUST AS...

oh well...like I said...they are MAD...rioting and looting demanding the police are defunded...LOL

seriously go research Scofield Darby and their Zionist Mid Acts Deception...errr Decepticon....sorry I mean Dispensationalists...

and be amazed how transformed this gospel has become...
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I don't make assumptions.

You made the CLAIM that the remnant is the body of Christ.

You were wrong from the OP.

P.S. The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?

So you make statements without showing any scripture support !
 
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