Right Divider
Body part
So you make statements without showing any scripture support !
The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?
So you make statements without showing any scripture support !
False assumption!
The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?
Welcome to the divided kingdom of Yah...
between those that do wish to Be MORE like Him His Ways vs those that claim the OT is NOT FOR ME
you see? Sabbath makes people so MAD they claim they are NOT part of well...His people...although they believe they are SAVED...
they LOOT the promise but reject the very Law which enshrines IT and secures their right to it by adoption which He guaranteed at the cross...
they are SQUATTERS in His kingdom insisting they have no house rules or chores...
faith for them makes void the Law despite Paul’s insistence we establish it and that we copy him as he copied Christ...JUST AS...
oh well...like I said...they are MAD...rioting and looting demanding the police are defunded...LOL
seriously go research Scofield Darby and their Zionist Mid Acts Deception...errr Decepticon....sorry I mean Dispensationalists...
and be amazed how transformed this gospel has become...
What about Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12? Don't you know that everybody that have Jesus as their LORD AND SAVIOUR, are in Israelite? Don't you know that we are Israelites spiritual? Begin to keep your eyes out of the literally Israel. John the Baptist says, that God can make Israelites from the stone. Don't you understand now what makes a person an true israelite?
Hi there. Those two scriptures refer to the body of Christ, the church, His body! Spiritual Israel
No my friend, you must read the story about the content to see what it means. By taking verses here and there you cannot come to the true meaning of the words of God.
What is remnant and what is church?
Post number or quote him.
Bearing false witness is a sin, GT.
No, I don't -- you false accusing devil.
The entire Bible is MUCH MORE than a story about individual personal salvation.
You are what I would call a "Christian humanist" as that's all that you focus on.
God's glory is FAR GREATER than just saving people from their sins.
You mean how like even in Nature's biology a graft is most successful when the branch is of the same family/genome? Bearing MORE similar fruit with the other branches NOT CUT OFF...and NOT LESS similar...
So in this case gentile branches bear MORE similar fruit to the other branches THAT REMAIN FOR THEIR BELIEF and the Sabbath keeping root and clean eating trunk...as per Acts 15 council...and NOT olives from fig branches figs from vine...
Peter taught NO DISTINCTION was made between the OF JACOB trunk and NOT OF JACOB branches grafted in..."and we Jews are saved AS they Gentiles are " by faith and gift of grace...
as it was when THIS Body with Him as its Head was in the OT wilderness ALREADY full of those NOT OF JACOB...given the Promise and adopted IN...by the SAME LAW securing their rights...ON CONDITION as ALL ARE...
If you're referring to what Paul said in Romans 11, I ask that you read it again more closely.
Christ is the root.
Israel is the natural branches.
The believing gentiles are the wild branch.
God cut off the unbelieving natural branches,
and grafted in the wild branch.
God will graft back in again the natural branches that were cut off when the fullness of the gentiles has come in.
There are two diifferent plants' branches here, the natural, domesticated olive tree, and the wild olive tree.
Paul doesn't say anything about fig trees in Romans 11.
In any case, it's not a matter of bearing fruit, but rather about being made holy by being grafted in:
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. - Romans 11:16-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:16-18&version=NKJV
Here is what Peter says:
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” - Acts 15:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts15:11&version=NKJV.
Future tense.
Meaning it hasn't happened yet for those saved in the New Covenant.
Paul, however, states that we are already saved, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 15:2, 2 Corinthians 2:15, present tense (or present active tense in the Greek).
The Body of Christ did not exist prior to Paul. 1 Timothy 1:16
Were there Gentiles who became proselytes in the Old Testament? YES!
Does that mean that the Body of Christ existed prior to Paul? NO!
That was the Old Covenant God made EXCLUSIVELY with Israel, and if a Gentile wanted to take part in it, he had to become a Jew. In other words, there was a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the Old (and even the New!) Covenant. But Paul says that there is "no distinction between Jew and Greek" in the Body of Christ.
Two separate programs for different people groups.
I would also add to my last post Psalm 51.
Notice that David, in his repentance for killing Uriah and taking Bathsheba as his own wife, asks God for a new, clean, heart. This is the very essence of being born again. And remember Jesus quite clearly chided Nicodemus, a teacher in Israel, for not understanding what it meant to be born again. This means the concept of being born again should have been known to the Jews of Jesus' day. Otherwise there was no foundation to Jesus' chiding of Nicodemus. In other words, if the concept of the new birth was not taught in the OT Jesus was lying by chiding Nicodemus for not understanding it. And we know Jesus never sinned.
David includes the concept of the Holy Spirit and it's importance in the role of obedience to God. You know, like Paul's statement: for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. And he says that the presence of the Holy Spirit in his life is the foundation for him to be able to teach others about God. Especially notice the last 4 verses in which David shows how the Isrealites understood true repentance. It was a broken spirit and a contrite heart that God accepts as repentance. And then David links that to the sacrificial system of burnt offerings to demonstrate their true meaning.
Remember also that David lived 1500 years before Jesus. This was the long time understanding of the sinner's position before God and what was meant by repentance in the teachings of the Bible. It's no wonder Jesus condemned the Pharisees and Sadducees for not understanding the Bible. They had moved a long ways away from a relational understanding of salvation to the legalistic ideas they held in Jesus' time. Jesus was not revealing anything new. He was cleaning away the rubbish that was hiding the truth during His days on earth.
So those who point to the Pharisees as holding a Biblical position on salvation, law keeping, the new birth, righteousness, etc... are dead wrong. The Jewish leadership during Jesus' day had pretty much everything wrong. That's why they hated Jesus. He showed how corrupt and wrongheaded they were. And they hated that. There was no attitude of repentance and asking for a change of heart within them. They were satisfied with who they were without God in their lives. That is self-righteousness, and the Bible teaches that is a belief that leads to death starting with the writings of Moses. In other words, from the very beginning of the Bible.
As to a saint being glorified and conforming to the image of Christ I asked you:
would Abel Enoch Noah Abraham Moses Elijah balk at water baptism or the Lord’s Prayer...or communion?Or Sabbath, festivals, and clean meats?
I mean "copy me as I copy Christ" is the image of Christ which Paul was encouraging yes? Establish the Law? Is why he kept Sabbaths and festivals...
Any claims to be IN HIM is to LIVE AS HE DID...said John...that would be conforming to the image of Christ yes?
His lifestyle...His Way...His keeping of His Father's commandments...you know those in the OT...
My friend go and see again with which person Paul is talking to.
There is a debate about Sabbath, go on YouTube and take a look maybe you can learn something.
Jim Staley/Chris Rosenberg.
The words "remnant" and "church" never appear together in scripture.... so who's making assumptions?
No my friend, you must read the story about the content to see what it means. By taking verses here and there you cannot come to the true meaning of the words of God.
When Jesus walked the earth, he taught how to get in him. That he taught was to the Jews first.
Right, nowhere in the Bible is the word 'remnant' used to refer to the Church the Body of Christ.
Yes it is Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
These jews Paul is writing about here are part of the Body of Christ, or else there's no Salvation by Grace for them !