Context. "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." (Revelation 21:1)
No need for mental gymnastics, Jesus said scripture cannot be broken.
Where will the Tribulation Temple be built?
- Thread starter beameup
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Context. "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." (Revelation 21:1)
No need for mental gymnastics, Jesus said scripture cannot be broken.
So what you are saying is that if Jesus had not appeared at that time mankind would have destroyed itself. I think you overestimate the Romans.
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
(Matthew 24:21-22 ESV)
(Matthew 24:21-22 ESV)
Interplanner
Well-known member
Mt24A is about Judea in the 1st century. When you see earth, world, land, etc, they are about Israel, as can be shown from many examples. That's why all of that has details and specifics about Israel. When you put Lk 19 and 21's details about Rome attacking Israel you will see the true picture.
24B is v29, which is obviously making itself distinct from the previous. It is about the whole world's day of judgement. But this has been delayed.
24B is v29, which is obviously making itself distinct from the previous. It is about the whole world's day of judgement. But this has been delayed.
KingdomRose
New member
Well, I can understand your confusion. A person needs the H.S. to understand scripture. What you describe is NOT LITERAL. Just like the locusts in Revelation 9:1-10 are not literal! Or do you think they are?
They actually have human faces with teeth like lions?
They literally have breastplates of iron? And tails that sting like scorpions?
LOL
Epoisses
New member
Satan's angels are released under the 5th trumpet and Michael's angels are released under the 6th trumpet in preparation for the war in heaven found in Rev. chap. 12. The word heaven can mean air, sky or the abode of God so the war in heaven will take place in our atmosphere. This war will be similar to some of the apocalyptic video games like darksiders or the witcher. The book of Joel speaks about the same great northern army that God will send to punish the earth.
KingdomRose
New member
And I told myself I'll be nice today and not call anybody an idiot.
Have you given any consideration to the idea that God can be "with" people in the sense that he is concerned about them and wants to interact with them (as he always has done---from heaven)? He said he would "live among them" back in ancient times. Did he LITERALLY live on the earth?
"I will meet there [at the doorway of the tent of meeting in the wilderness] with the sons of Israel, and it shall be consecrated by my glory....I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God. They shall know that I am the LORD [YHWH] their God who brought them out of the land of Egypt, that I might dwell among them." (Exodus 29:43-46, NASB)
Did he LITERALLY come down and live among the Israelites? Funny, I don't see that happening anywhere in the scriptures. In fact, King Solomon said, at the consecration of the Temple: "Will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" (I Kings 8:27, NASB)
God meant exactly what Jesus meant when Jesus said: "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matt.28:20, NASB) Has Jesus LITERALLY been here on Earth with his disciples? HOW has he been "with" us?
KingdomRose
New member
Answer my question please.
Epoisses
New member
The descriptions of the riders and horses in Rev. 9 is quite possibly an accurate depiction of the forces of darkness.
SonOfCaleb
Active member
That scriptures actually refers to Jesus being anointed as King as a an heir of David and not an earthy temple as you've presumed.
John 2:19-22 "19 Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said: “This temple was built in 46 years, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was talking about the temple of his body. 22 When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples recalled that he used to say this, and they believed the scripture and what Jesus had spoken".
Mark 15:29-30 "And those going by would speak abusively to him, wagging their heads and saying: “Bah! You would-be thrower-down of the temple and builder of it in three days’ time, 30 save yourself by coming down off the torture stake".
The pharisees and scribes acknowledged the Temple Jesus spoke of -using symbolism- was himself. Jesus offered himself up as a living sacrifice. Thus there was no need for a physical temple anymore as evidenced by Jesus own words. The physical temple that was once used for animal sacrifice had served its purpose.
Come down from where? Where do you think God is?
Actually, it's not a presumption. It's based on Jesus' teachings.
Jesus said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart..."
(Matthew 11:29 KJV)
Earlier Jesus had said, "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5 KJV)
If Jesus is meek as he said, and the meek will inherit the earth then he will be a joint heir with us of the earth.
SonOfCaleb
Active member
No its not. Nowhere in the Christian Greek scriptures or in Jesus teachings did Jesus ever say the earthly Temple from Jerusalem would be rebuilt after its destruction in 70CE. As per the scriptures i showed you Jesus himself represents the Temple and represents the sacrificial lamb for mankind, a perfect human life being given for the perfect human life that was lost by Adam.
The Temple was an institution by God during the time of the Jews. Its been gone for nearly 2000 years. All that's left is the so called 'Wailing Wall'. So by your reasoning not only has God forsaken this earthly temple for 2000 years -which is a good indication of its irrelevance to God- but you also presume this earthly temple figures somehow during the Great Tribulation? And exactly what would its function be when God has had no need of an earthly temple for circa 2000 years?
Nope, the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah is millennial.
There will be a millennial Temple. (Acts 15:16-17)
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Ongoing since Pentecost.
The tabernacle of David was not the completed Temple, and no stone temple (or stone city)will ever be built to house Jesus Christ.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
LA
By giving us of His Spirit within.
and by His presence administered by Angels, without.
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
LA
Jesus said he did not come to loosen the law, but to make full the Law and the Prophets.
I take it you don't believe him, is that right?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Heaven is his throne...where then could man build a temple great enough?
There is a living temple now which is the body of Christ, Eph 2.
The tribulation of Mt24A was in 1st century Judea.
There is a living temple now which is the body of Christ, Eph 2.
The tribulation of Mt24A was in 1st century Judea.
Good point. Jesus' disciples asked him, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
(Matthew 24:3)
Are you thinking Jesus' coming at the end of the age was in the first century?
KingdomRose
New member
You made the statement that the Bible describes this planet as being virtually destroyed, so, you said, why would you want to live here (?). What you described was from Revelation, and I said that it was not literal, just as the locusts in the 9th chapter are not literal.
"The appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions....They have tails like scorpions." (Rev.9:7-10, NASB)
If you take Revelation literally, like you apparently do concerning chapter 16, then the locusts must literally have teeth like lions' and tails like scorpions. So you are saying that literal locusts are being described in that chapter?
KingdomRose
New member
I think God is where the Bible says he is! (You speak about things you've learned from men, and not from God.) There are MANY scriptures that say what King Solomon said, and I'll just quote him to make the point as to where God is:
"Listen to the supplication of Your servant and of Your people Israel, when they pray toward this place [the Temple]; hear in heaven Your dwelling place; hear and forgive." (I Kings 8:30, NASB)
He repeated this sentiment at least 7 times in his prayer. God was in heaven.
Oh, and I might as well remind you that Jesus ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of the throne of God, in heaven.
"Jesus said to her [Mary], 'Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."'" (John 20:17, NASB)
"Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens." (Hebrews 8:1, NASB)
Now you know where God is.