You say, I rant well! I say, you don't rant particularly well! Of course
I have to remind myself who I'm dealing with!
ECT WHERE DO PENTECOSTALS GO WHEN THEY DIE ?
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
You say, I rant well! I say, you don't rant particularly well! Of course
I have to remind myself who I'm dealing with!
Hi , and are you saying that when a person dies #1 , The body goes to Grave !!
The Spirit goes back to God !
The Souls also SLEEPS ?
Or does the Soul go to Abraham's Bosom ?
Or is Soul under the ALTER ? Revelations !!
Where do you say the Soul IS ??
Care to explain 2 Cor 5:8 ?:mock::mock:
dan p
If they know the Lord, heaven. If they don't, hell.
He's in for a rude awakening.
Hi , and we use to have Acts 28 er's in our assembly , for 20 some years , but they left , about 5 years ago !!
They are the true Hyper-Dispies !!
dan p
They rest in their graves with Daniel and David.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
No, they are the dead in Christ in the graves--
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Abrahams bosom is not hell.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Don't you know anything, Dan?
You need to obey Acts 2:38 spoken to you by a Christian.
LA
andyc
New member
Not sure what point he's trying to make here. Hell and Abraham's bosom are from a parable?
Anyway, the spirits of true believers, regardless of denom, will go to be with Christ in heaven, and the physical body ends up buried or cremated.
Hi , and you then believe that Luke 16:20 is a Parable ?
#2 , Then Abraham's Bosom is a Parable ?
#3 , Is Lazarus a Parable ?
#4 , Is the fich man Souls a Parable in Luke 16:20 ?
#5 , I the Rich mans Torment a Parable in verse 25 ?
#6 , What is being Tormented , his body or his Soul ?
#7 Why does Abraham mention Moses in verse 29 , if it is a Parable ?
#8 , In verse 31 we SEE what is being PREACHED during Jesus ministry MOSES and PROPHETS and not GRACE , :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
We can then see why Pentecosalism is the WRONG message for today as some have to believe in Soul Sleep !!:bang::bang:
dan p
andyc
New member
It was a parable, but the parable refutes soul sleep. The majority of pentes reject soul sleep. I certainly do.
Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
Hi , and I do not see the Greek word PARABOLE in Luke 16:20 , do you ??
The answer is NO , NO !!
If you will explain Luke 16:20 and say it is a PARABLE , then I will say that ALL of Luke is a Parable , :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
You Pentecostals have no where to go , nor will you answer what I wrote in my post !!:bang::bang:
dan p
oatmeal
Well-known member
Acts 2:27-32
Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
The same place Jesus Christ went and all dead believers go to be rise from. I Thessalonians 4:13-17
Hi and what is your point ?
You are avoiding Posts #30 and 31 ??
What I believe the word teaches , is that the 12 and those that believed Moses and the Prophets , went to Abraham's Bosom and did not go to heaven !!
That is why Gal 3:28 REFUTES the Pentecostal position and Pentecostal theology ENDED in Acts 28:28 OR 70 AD !!
dan p
andyc
New member
It makes no difference if the story was a parable or a real story about the rich man and Lazarus. The point that Jesus was making is what matters.
oatmeal
Well-known member
You asked the question, I gave you the answer.
I replied to your OP, if you don't like my reply, oh well.
For now, this reply is all your thread is worth as far as my time is worth.
Your hatred or dislike or whatever your problem is needs to be solved.
If you have a problem with scripture, take that up with God who authored it.
I Corinthians 14:5 is still a commandment of the Lord, whether you like it or not.
Hi , and running away is a good tactic for you as you will neve r explain 1 Cor 14:5 or 1Cor 13:8-13 :rotfl::rotfl:
You are a not knowledgeable and are just a CALLOW person and you are the one having a problem with the bible !!:bang::bang:
I can MENTOR you , so ask me a question anytime !!
dan p
If your body has to die before your spirit is with the Lord then what happened to your salvation now?
There is nothing in the Bible showing the spirit can be with the Lord through the death of the body.
The theory supports spiritualism.
The converse is true.
The spirit remains with the body.(as do the spirits they lived in)
2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
When are believers going to stop overriding scripture with their own false theories? One will never know the full truth by that method.
When men die it means the soul is dead.
LA
andyc
New member
Nonsense
He who lives and believes in me will NEVER DIE. John 11:26
Absent from the body, present with the Lord. 2Cor 5:8
Peter talked about putting off his tabernacle (flesh).
Moses and Elijah (who are physically dead) appeared with Jesus on the mount.
You are denying the spiritual. Don't fall into the trap of humanism, which is a denial of the spiritual. Eternal life begins when people are born again. There can be no eternal life if death leads to non existence. How could a person possess eternal life, and then cease to exist?
Pull yourself out if humanistic thinking.
After he is resurrected--
Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
After his resurrection into the new body---
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
The disciples would not be with the Lord until the Lords return.---
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
There is no time in death, only for the living.
The same as 2 Cor ch 5.
One must be clothed upon with the new body to be present with the Lord.
The testimony of scripture is that the four persons alive in Heaven all went there with their bodies.
I deny hyperspiritualism.
Ask Elisha and Lazarus, none ceased to exist, but when they were dead they knew nothing, they were more unconscious than when in bed sleeping.
So you really do not want to be taught by scripture.
LA
andyc
New member
And he who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? No you don't.
Your view is that it is impossible to be absent from the body. Because in the resurrection a new body is provided. And so Paul is talking about being with the Lord when absent from the body.
This is something you do not believe is possible. Why? Humanistic thinking. The human mind can't accept it, so it rejects it. Humanism.
There is no time in eternity. And so when people enter into eternity, all is already fulfilled. This is why Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. They are already in eternity.
Not scriptural.
Spiritual bodies.
Not according to scripture.
You are denying scripture, and faith in the spiritual.
Now lets look at more examples....
2 Corinthians 12:3 And I know such a man——whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows——
Paul isn't sure if he was caught up into heaven in his body or out of his body. You do not believe the latter is possible, unlike Paul.
1Thes 5:9-10
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
How is it possible to live with Christ while the physical body is asleep?
That would be impossible, unless we are present with the Lord while absent from the body. You don't even believe this is possible.
Mark 12:26-27
But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."
If God is not the God of the dead, Abraham Isaac and Jacob are not dead. They are in heaven.
Ephesians 2:19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God
Notice that we are currently fellow citizens in the household of God. Not, will be. If we are there already, it must be our spirits that dwell there.
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
How can Jesus be on earth and in heaven at the same time?
He was physically on earth, but his spirit was in heaven.
Eph 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Notice that we have (past tense) been raised up and made to sit with Christ in heavenly places. I am currently sitting with Christ in heaven.
You don't believe it, I do.
Why don't you believe it?
Because your human earthly mind doesn't understand it, and so rejects it.