What is the Gospel?

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
False teaching, Christ is Elect is True, however He is the Head of His Body the Church, they are One. You cant have the Head to be Elect and not His Chosen Members, His Body the Church, thats an deformed Christ !
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You didn't read carefully enough, because I absolutely did say His body was elect because of their position in Him. That our Lord would have a body of believers was the PURPOSE from the beginning. When we believe the Gospel, we are begotten by the Gospel into that Body of Christ.
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet,

If I may inquire...

Picture yourself on your death bed about to draw your last breath! You are compelled to say in your mind one of the following phrases as your last thoughts:

Jesus forgive me.

Jesus I hate you.

Which one would you be likely to say?
No fair opting to say neither - not allowed in this hypothetical scenario.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
The Gospel is the proclamation of the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Who He is, what He accomplished and for whom He accomplished it. The scriptures states all these things. Now that said, the natural man cannot receive the Gospel Truths, they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14 also the lost person cant believe the Gospel because it is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 [FONT="]But if [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT="]our gospel [/FONT][FONT="]be hid, it [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT="]is hid to them that are lost:[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
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The word does not say, the natural man cannot understand the "Gospel truths". In fact, the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. There is POWER in the word of God, itself. There would be no purpose in the Gospel at all if what you claim is true. But, it isn't true, which is why you have to change what the Bible says. In fact, the Gospel is the means through which the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us...which is the beginning of all our spiritual enlightenment.

How can they hear without a PREACHER....not allowing for that is why you say these things.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
You didn't read carefully enough, because I absolutely did say His body was elect because of their position in Him. That our Lord would have a body of believers was the PURPOSE from the beginning. When we believe the Gospel, we are begotten by the Gospel into that Body of Christ.
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I read enough to see your false teaching!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
The word does not say, the natural man cannot understand the "Gospel truths". In fact, the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. There is POWER in the word of God, itself. There would be no purpose in the Gospel at all if what you claim is true. But, it isn't true, which is why you have to change what the Bible says. In fact, the Gospel is the means through which the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us...which is the beginning of all our spiritual enlightenment.

How can they hear without a PREACHER....not allowing for that is why you say these things.
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Denial of the truth!
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
The indictment: Christianity, with no definitive Gospel, is akin to the divided house that Jesus spoke of.
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Still not true. The only thing you are on about is how the gospel 'applies.' Even MAD, who believe in two gospels, only believe one exists today, the same one everyone else would preach. On top of that, AMR already set you straight that gospel simply means 'good news' and thus all of Romans about Salvation through Jesus Christ, is good news. You'll find NOBODY that disagrees with me. Try it. Post what I've said and invite anyone to disagree. They won't. It proves your indictment is false: you are the only one saying it. Keep wrestling with God, you will NOT have an easy victory. He wins every time. You'd be foolish to think you can win. At the least, your hip will need surgery. Genesis 32:25
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Lon said:
His/their concern is that the truth be preached and they (and I) are of the mind that Truth trumps mistruth/lies. While we are to silence lies, I think we 'best' do so by truth rather than censorship. That said, I think you do have a leg to stand on with censorship, just not on TOL specifically because it desires to foster most discussion topics.
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I guess I knew that would be the response. Your reaction to this?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Lon said:
So, are you concerned that lack of faith keeps you from God? Some great sin? Doubt? We can't read your mind, but can discern some of the things you say. I'm glad you choose to wrestle with God. There is a desire in you. Either you are wrestling against Him, or trying to wrestle for Him, for your faith. Either is Good: God wins. It isn't just by might, but by the concern. While many here worry about you, I am not as worried. You cannot wrestle long with God without God winning over your soul and you've been doing this awhile now and keep coming back. I've been in similar shoes. I was convinced that for God to be God, from scriptures, He has to be faithful when we are faithless. To me, it appears that you are in a season of your soul, for whatever reason, and are in need of finding God in this place, during this season. Keep pressing after Him. -Lon
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I am expressing a disappointment with what appears to be scriptural doublespeak. I would have thought that just a few additional verses could have preempted this issue.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
George Affleck said:
Sonnet,

If I may inquire...

Picture yourself on your death bed about to draw your last breath! You are compelled to say in your mind one of the following phrases as your last thoughts:

Jesus forgive me.

Jesus I hate you.

Which one would you be likely to say?
No fair opting to say neither - not allowed in this hypothetical scenario.
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I already pray to a nebulous figure whom I call Jesus - but I actually don't know if He is real. I know that sounds bizarre, but it's a reality. I already ask for forgiveness...in the same disbelieving manner.

Perhaps expressing a disappointment about scripture isn't such a big deal. Perhaps, if Jesus is a reality - then He too might say, 'Yeh, Scripture isn't the total truth.'

Perhaps the Bible has some error.
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Sonnet said:
I am a non-believer interested in knowing what the good news is. I ask because, in my experience, Christians do not seem to agree on the specifics. One might point to the issue of the scope of Christ's salvific provision as being particularly relevant.

If the Gospel isn't clearly defined then, surely, the non-believer may legitimately ask, 'Believe in what?'
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“and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."”
**Matthew‬ *3:17‬ *ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/mat.3.17.esv


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Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
I guess I knew that would be the response. Your reaction to this?
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For most Reformed, yes. For me, yes but this: God WILL save all that may/can be saved. He is truly, as well, not willing that any should perish.

For the most part, a Calvinist is interested in the conversation of God being completely omniscient, thus before doing anything, He knows the outcome. Some then would argue: Why didn't He do something else then? To ENSURE more or all would be saved? That conversation, then, has Calvinists, Arminians, and Open Theists at the end of those answers and looking to scriptural support. Our minds, as intelligent as we are, are actually not equipped for infinite thinking. We actually stop, every time, short and must, because we are finite. We catch glimpses of eternity but as brilliant as I think I am, I will not think infinitely. Because of that, I HAVE to trust scripture and God. You know as well as I do that God is Love. It is right there in the Epistles of John. You know as well as I do, God calls us to love our enemies and do good to them. He couldn't call us to do so unless 1) He loves us and wants that for/from us and 2) loves them by necessity. There are things God 'hates' but it isn't like you and I think of it emotionally wrought, confusing, and out of control. God hates what is life eliminating. He hates that which is love robbing. Why? Because it is opposite His nature. He can only do right and good, loving and proper etc. etc. We, being made in His image, are not there yet. We are reaching. Your story needs to not so much be what we believe, but what you are discovering about God yourself. Keep wrestling. I've done the same. My answers are a bit different and I greatly empathize, and at times wrongly present my Calvinism, simply because I don't know how to bridge the gap, nor if I'm supposed to. That said, most of us are convinced ALL who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved, because it says so that clearly in scripture. If all my ducks are not in a row, that too is grace. For any of my faults, look to Him. His grace is sufficient and vast. In Him -Lon
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
That the language permits the interpretation that Calvinists impute to it means we have seeming doublespeak. That doesn't encourage faith.
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Not double speak....which would be putting the blame on God, but rather influence by various Bible scholars in their interpretations. We see people making mistakes all the time. That's not God's fault, or the fault of what is written in His word.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
glorydaz said:
Not double speak....which would be putting the blame on God,
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That assumes God exists. It could be doublespeak if the true author behind scripture is fallible mankind.

but rather influence by various Bible scholars in their interpretations. We see people making mistakes all the time. That's not God's fault, or the fault of what is written in His word.
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Couldn't just one of the forty scribes have pre-empted the issue? And said something to the effect that, 'no, God did not predetermine who would be regenerated'?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Lon said:
For most Reformed, yes. For me, yes but this: God WILL save all that may/can be saved. He is truly, as well, not willing that any should perish.
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?

Each and everyone of us inherits total depravity, right? Such that we cannot turn to God? Cannot / will not? Could, but never would?

And God chooses those He will save? Russian roulette?
 
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