Sonnet
New member
Calvinists won't preach verse 3 to unbelievers. For me, this leaves the Gospel undefined.
Last edited:
What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
- Start date
Calvinists won't preach verse 3 to unbelievers. For me, this leaves the Gospel undefined.
Sonnet
New member
In 1 Corinthians 2, Paul distinguishes a message 'without wise and persuasive words' and, in contrast, one 'with wisdom'. The later, Paul explains, is for the mature and is not understood by those without the Spirit:
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
Presumably the former (the Gospel Paul preached when he originally came to them) was, however, something that could be understood and accepted? If not, why would Paul make the contrast?
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
Presumably the former (the Gospel Paul preached when he originally came to them) was, however, something that could be understood and accepted? If not, why would Paul make the contrast?
Last edited:
Do you know what the Kingdom message is? Yes Jn 3:16 speaks of the death atonement but in that context Yeshua is defining salvation to a Jewish teacher whose belief system (first century Pharisaic Judaism) taught him that by Jewish birth he was already saved. When he asked Yeshua "how can I be born again when I am old," nicodemos having been born again 4 times (bar mitzvah, marriage, Pharisee, and teacher of a Pharisaic school), didn't know that there was a 7th new birth and Yeshua teaches him that being born of the spirit was necessary for salvation. So yes the chapter described the love of God for the world and that belief in Yeshua was what saves but that message was not the message sent out in chapter 11.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The elect are dead in trespasses and sins until faith in the gospel when regeneration takes place. Thus all are condemned from birth.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are more than two hundred places in the New Testament where the condition for salvation is spelled out, and in all these, cases faith or belief is given as the one and only condition.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Until he puts the “Jap”on you with one of his classic 4 word responses that turn everything upside down...
opcorn:
Not possible
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sonnet
New member
To clarify - you mean chapter 10?
Sonnet
New member
Perhaps I wasn't clear - I'm asking about the part played by the human, at birth, in their inherited nature - the nature that means they cannot turn to God unaided. The part played has to be zero right?
He's being very unhelpful with his word salads. He been removed.
Interesting post.
There is indeed, a contrast there, between the former, and the latter parts of that chapter.
Meaning, either that one needs to be saved in order to see those things, or one does not need to be saved in order to understand those things, and the Apostle Paul is actually talking about something else.
Something which the poor translation you quoted has missed.
The translation of that passage in the KJV is correct.
The lower case spirit is because a "mind," perspective, or outlook on a thing, is what is being referred to, as well as contrasted.
And of the several key contrasts Paul is pointing out there, one of those is based on the principle that the natural man he is referring to there refers to the Believer's tendency, if left unchecked, to look at things through his natural man - his tendency to mind things as the wisdom of this world does, in contrast to what he is called to do, based on, and because of Romans 5:8's fact, as a summary.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Verse 3 is an example of the impact of said mind renewal on one's thought life, beliefs, values, perspective, attitude towards others, etc., that looking at all things in light of Romans 5:8 is meant to result in, in the Believer.
And that is the first part of 1 Corinthians 1- 3 that Paul is going on about, and that he laments they have remained nowhere near having grown in.
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
The Corinthians had remained and or become even more so, all about "just giving so and so a dose of his own medicine..."
The result of their having so remained at the newbie Believer's tendency to look at things through the natural man being the result that Paul found they were nowhere near even ready for much on The Mystery of The Cross (it's intended, "our glory" aspect) that The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of The Cross is not only merely the beginning of, but the training ground in, towards being ready for receiving, understanding, towards walking in, this other aspect of The Cross unto said other aspect's Eternal Glory.
And obviously, he had shared some of said Mystery with them, but not much, and what little he had shared with them had been rendered useless as to its entended enablement, by their having allowed themselves their natural man, wisdom of this world tendency, or focus.
In all that, I continue to find the following a fascinating dynamic...something I was thinking on, this morning, after running into a Charismatic Believer I'd not seen in a while, and given what he automatically went into - his self-deluded, thin-skinned political views.
Afterwards, I found myself reflecting on how that the Corinthians would not only have been die-hard Trump supporters, but just as thin skinned now also; had their obvious wisdom of this world as to that kind of thing been pointed out to them.
Note an aspect of The Mystery - about the Body's role where Angels will be concerned, and yet note what their petty focus has made of its intended training in the here and now, to become - which only negatively impacts the reward of their inheritance in Eternity.
1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Such was not to have been their focus.
For it is the Eternal focus that both trains and enables the Believer not only in the here and now, but towards his or her fitness for service in Eternity.
This kind of Eternal focus here...
2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Such is the case today - even on TOL - many within the Body have simply gone so long in their giving themselves over to their natural man tendency, that they actually could not but find that so vile and petty an individual as Donald Trump, speaks to them.
There is no sense in speaking to such about those higher Mystery truths the Apostle Paul had wanted to share with the Corinthians but had had to lament they'd not progressed much beyond "Christ died for our sins" - for they had, in fact, turned even that, into an "us versus them" - within their own assemblies...
It is fascinating how relevant that letter remains to this very day.
Again, Sonnet, interesting post.
And that translation is off.
In this - Romans 5:8 towards you and I, both - towards all of us!
After chapter 10 the 70 are sent out to proclaim the Messianic Kingdom message, not the individual salvation gospel message.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One must accept the individual salvation message to inherit in the Messianic Kingdom.
LA
Because it doesn't have its own verse, saying that if this didn't happen, or if this isn't true, then call the whole Christian thing off. Like 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV) does, about Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV), plus 2nd Timothy 2:8 (KJV) Romans 10:9 (KJV) indicates that, why would you concern yourself with whatever it is that you're concerned about in 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV)? especially since the very next verse 1st Corinthians 15:4 (KJV) mentions Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV), plus 2nd Timothy 2:8 (KJV) right in it, right there?
Anyway, that's why. It's the Gospel, that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen.
Pot, meet kettle.
Sonnet
New member
I understand you point. Nevertheless, did Christ die for all men without exception?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Sonnet
New member
That is good news.
:e4e:
1 John 2:1-2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.