What is the Gospel?

Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Sonnet said:
Please would you clarify? You responded, seemingly, against the assertion that Christ died for unbelievers sins.
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I have clarified already. The Church is saved. If you're not an individual member of the Church, you're not saved. To be an individual member of the Church, believe Easter. That is all.
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
Lon said:
It was simply asked, and by that I mean not effectively. It was asked incorrectly.

:Z You are conflating Gospel with creation, with prescription etc. all in this jumble. For you it may be a simple or simplistic matter, for me, it isn't careful enough. You've complicated the question with too much luggage.

I'll show you: "No" God did not 'create' men for damnation. He made man. Man chose damnation. He 'created' man knowing he'd be damned but NOT for that purpose.
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If God did this, which you say He did, it says something about God's character.
If God did this, it is good that men go to hell.

If He did this, it is good that men go to hell, and it is good that men go to heaven; therefore, bad is left in obscurity.

Could you explain what bad is?

Further "No" It is not the Gospel that men are damned. John 3:18 "Already" condemned thus not in connection with the work and being of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
"Do I not believe that..." Awkward: "Yes, I do not believe that..." I've said "yes" clearly but are you sure you know what I answered? You asked in such a way that for me, at least, a "yes no" is confused as a sufficient answer. For you? :think:

Nope, not the gospel, but not what you were 'trying' to ask. I'm 'simply' frustrated by sloppy questions that are asked by men who aren't up to par for theological discussion. Blame? :nono: No, just frustration that I can't answer the question the way I want it asked (because it hasn't been asked that way) nor that my answer to the simplistic will accurately project my feelings over the matter. "OUR" frustration is probably mutual as such but at the very least, I believe I can span the frustration meaningfully for better conversation later.

YES and you agree if you believe anybody is ever damned. "So be it" is "ordination." Do you mean or are you conflating 'desire' as part of this? God ordains, does not desire damnation, but that all would come to Him. I realize, as E.E. accused, such looks like sophistry from a Calvinist but that is not at all my intention. I'm embracing scriptures. It took me a LONG time and I had an Ah Ha moment. I was always resistant to Calvinism before that. It isn't Sophistry, but I agree Calvinism is hard to understand.

Yes, giving men eternal life is essentially the content of what the 'Gospel' means.

It may help for you to hear from this Calvinist: The story of the wedding feast is to "COMPELL" men to come. It isn't that God is sitting back, it is that we are all so stupidly stubborn that whomever He can MAKE come to Him, He does. Luke 14:23 He is literally saving all those He can AND it is a miracle any of us come. Romans 3:10-12
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So you believe that God is limited in His ability to save; He desires to, but is incapable.
A miracle that some are saved, but the others God is incapable of saving?
Something doesn't add up.
Again, this describes the character of God.

(also, read Derf's Good post, he about answered all of these very well, before me, and in a way that I could have also answered. I could have typed his post myself, about verbatim) :e4e: -Lon
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I read it more than once and answered it yesterday.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Sorry about the excessive use of emphatic quotes.
blackbirdking said:
If God did this, which you say He did, it says something about God's character.
If God did this, it is good that men go to hell.

If He did this, it is good that men go to hell, and it is good that men go to heaven; therefore, bad is left in obscurity.

Could you explain what bad is?
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Isn't "bad" the things men do to deserve hell? And isn't it "good" when "bad" is punished? Thus, men going to hell is "good", because "bad" is punished.

Isn't God's purpose (and Jesus' prayer) about "bad" being left in obscurity--no longer a feature of the world, just like in heaven?

Maybe that's not how you meant it...
So you believe that God is limited in His ability to save; He desires to, but is incapable.
A miracle that some are saved, but the others God is incapable of saving?
Something doesn't add up.
Again, this describes the character of God.
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[MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] and I may disagree a bit on the answer to this, but I think God desires to save some, and He is limited in His ability to do so. Why? because He chose to limit Himself in this way in order to achieve the goal mentioned above--that His will is done on earth as it is in heaven. Thus, He would like to save everybody, but not everybody will allow themselves to be "saved", since "saved" seems to include being entirely submissive to His will, eventually. Unsubmissive people cannot be saved, as that would allow sin in God's presence.

Yes, this definitely describes the character of God. And it shows the conundrum of omnipotence and free will.
 
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1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Sonnet said:
Did Jesus die for my sins Nihilo?
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1 John 2:2
2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 4:10

10To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

2 Timothy 2:13

13if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
1 John 2:2
2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 4:10

10To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

2 Timothy 2:13

13if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

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You've told me straight. Ta.
 
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