What is the Gospel?

[God's Truth]

You don't have faith in His faith, but your filthy rags

It is never ever wrong in any way to obey God. God does not tell us our righteous acts are as filthy rags when we do what He says.
God was speaking to the Jews WHO WOULD NOT STOP SINNING. For instance, in the old law, the Jews would sin, then they had to give a sin offering as a righteous act, they had to give sin offerings just to worship God. God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins.

It's God's will that all men be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV). God will save anyone and everyone, no matter who they are or what they were doing while they were there: when they trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

My sins were forgiven 2000 years ago when God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself; not imputing their trespasses unto them/ when I was quickened together with Him (2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV). I'm not sure why you don't believe God took care of yours.

You were not quickened with him 2000 years ago.

 

[Interplanner]

It is never ever wrong in any way to obey God. God does not tell us our righteous acts are as filthy rags when we do what He says.
God was speaking to the Jews WHO WOULD NOT STOP SINNING. For instance, in the old law, the Jews would sin, then they had to give a sin offering as a righteous act, they had to give sin offerings just to worship God. God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins.



You were not quickened with him 2000 years ago.

Actually, we were GT. You are confusing transformation (subjective) with justification (objective). You're right, we couldn't possibly be transformed when not alive. Nor would any potential transformation matter. But there was an event, the Gospel, which provided the currency for our justification, and no further currency was produced. A person has to see that that event justified us, and that justification really spans a person's entire life. Look at Romans and you will not find it past tense. Paul puts it last in one list of redemptive changes in 1 Cor 1.

This is because justification deals with a sort of legal or bookkeeping matter, which is sin as a debt. It does not deal with, nor is it about, sin as a stench or stain or daily force. It still makes a huge impact: "he who loves much was forgiven much" shows how big an impact justification has on daily life. But it is never to be confused as the transformation of daily life.

This material is 'soteriology 101' (the doctrine of salvation). If the two things are confused, everything will be confused.

1 the Gospel was God's work for us in Christ in history
2 transformation is God's work in us through the Spirit

 

[heir]

Read those scriptures more carefully. No one has to clean themselves anymore by doing various washings and sacrificing animals.

God can keep count! Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness.



Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness.

Romans 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

God can't count Christ's righteousness to you even though it's unto all (Romans 3:21-22 KJV), because you have not believed on Him that justifieth the ungodly (Romans 4:5 KJV) and are trying to work for your salvation. How many times do ambassadors have to tell you that you can't work for it and that God counts your attempt to work for it as debt (Romans 4:4 KJV)?

 

[heir]

You were not quickened with him 2000 years ago.

Contrariwise!

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

...


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Only a ssssssnake would say otherwise!

 

[God's Truth]

Actually, we were GT.

No we were not quickened with Jesus 2000 years ago.

We are quickened when we receive the Holy Spirit, and that is when Jesus saves us, after we repent.

That is how we are reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

You are confusing transformation (subjective) with justification (objective).

I am doing no such thing.

We are justified by faith in Jesus' blood.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Justification has to do with being made clean. The Jews used to have to make themselves clean with the ceremonial works. Since Jesus, our faith in Jesus' blood makes us clean.


We are justified by faith, and with the mouth, we confess AND ARE SAVED.

See Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

If you call Jesus ‘Lord’, you had better be obeying him. See Luke 6:46.

Faith alone is dead.

As for being transformed, when you have Jesus' teachings in your mind, you are being transformed with these righteous commands to think about and act upon.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

You're right, we couldn't possibly be transformed when not alive. Nor would any potential transformation matter. But there was an event, the Gospel, which provided the currency for our justification, and no further currency was produced.

There is no but about it.

A person has to see that that event justified us, and that justification really spans a person's entire life.

No one is justified until they come to God's grace by faith. That is how we have access to the event that happened when Jesus was crucified.

See Romans 5:2.

 

[God's Truth]

God can keep count! Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness.

Abraham believed God and it was counted to Him for righteousness.

Romans 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

God can't count Christ's righteousness to you even though it's unto all (Romans 3:21-22 KJV), because you have not believed on Him that justifieth the ungodly (Romans 4:5 KJV) and are trying to work for your salvation. How many times do ambassadors have to tell you that you can't work for it and that God counts your attempt to work for it as debt (Romans 4:4 KJV)?

We have to believe and obey. We just do not have to obey the old law with the ceremonial works, such as circumcision.

James 2:20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

 

[God's Truth]

Contrariwise!

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

...


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Only a ssssssnake would say otherwise!

You were not quickened with him 2000 years ago.

We have access to God's grace by faith and confession. See Romans 5:2.


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,



We are justified by faith, and with the mouth, we confess AND ARE SAVED.



See Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.


If you call Jesus ‘Lord’, you had better be obeying him. See Luke 6:46.



Faith alone is dead.

 

[beloved57]

You were not quickened with him 2000 years ago.

We have access to God's grace by faith and confession. See Romans 5:2.


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,



We are justified by faith, and with the mouth, we confess AND ARE SAVED.



See Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.


If you call Jesus ‘Lord’, you had better be obeying him. See Luke 6:46.



Faith alone is dead.

Those Christ lived and died for were quickened together with Him when He was quickened from the dead Eph 2:6!

Also by His One obedience they were made righteous Rom 5:19!

 

[God's Truth]

Those Christ lived and died for were quickened together with Him when He was quickened from the dead Eph 2:6!

No one is reconciled to God until they believe and obey Jesus.


2 Corinthians 5:20 ...we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.…

Also by His One obedience they were made righteous Rom 5:19!

Romans 5:19 through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

You have to come to Jesus in faith and obedience to be saved.

 

[Interplanner]

No one is reconciled to God until they believe and obey Jesus.


2 Corinthians 5:20 ...we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.…



Romans 5:19 through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

You have to come to Jesus in faith and obedience to be saved.

You have to have some common sense here and realize that people born in 1950 won't realize all the work was done for them in 30...until sometime in 1970 (for ex.) when they are old enough to assimilate it. They don't add anything in 1970; they just realize what Christ did. Realize through God's spirit. That's not a performance of any sort.

Let's be practical people. Stop unnecessary banters.

 

[beloved57]

No one is reconciled to God until they believe and obey Jesus.


2 Corinthians 5:20 ...we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.…



Romans 5:19 through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

You have to come to Jesus in faith and obedience to be saved.

That is the difference between your false religion and my religion of the scriptures! By Christ's one obedience they He lived and died for are made righteous Rom 5:19 !

 

[God's Truth]

You have to have some common sense here and realize that people born in 1950 won't realize all the work was done for them in 30...until sometime in 1970 (for ex.) when they are old enough to assimilate it. They don't add anything in 1970; they just realize what Christ did. Realize through God's spirit. That's not a performance of any sort.

Let's be practical people. Stop unnecessary banters.

The people USED TO HAVE TO work at MAKING THEMSELVES clean, just so they could go to the tent, and later the temple---just to worship God.

They had to abstain from evil and do good, AND THEY HAD TO MAKE THEMSELVES CLEAN.

Faith in Jesus' blood makes us clean now. We do not have to do the ceremonial works to make ourselves clean, but we as always have to obey God and abstain from evil.

When we come to Jesus in faith that his blood washes us clean and takes away our sins---we have to confess and repent of those sins.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The people USED TO HAVE TO work at MAKING THEMSELVES clean, just so they could go to the tent, and later the temple---just to worship God.

They had to abstain from evil and do good, AND THEY HAD TO MAKE THEMSELVES CLEAN.

Faith in Jesus' blood makes us clean now. We do not have to do the ceremonial works to make ourselves clean, but we as always have to obey God and abstain from evil.

When we come to Jesus in faith that his blood washes us clean and takes away our sins---we have to confess and repent of those sins.

I see by your "Rep" you don't know what you're talking about. Posters aren't buying your posts.

 

[Interplanner]

If it will help, I'll tell you about me at Bible camp. There was going to be ice cream at the pool the next day if your bill was all paid. Otherwise, they would call your parents and you would wait outside the front gate. No pool that day. You see it was 1965 and I didn't even know how to quantify $50. So I was really bummed. But the next morning, another counselor came through and showed us a document from the office. All of us, in our cabin at least, had their bill paid by somebody in a church who owned the property where this camp was held. There it was--$800 paid for our cabin. We were off the ground.

This shows that nothing could have been done by us; none of us knew how to make a call or even a phone number. But did we accept it? Well sure. Did accepting it have much $ value? None at all. And anyway none of us kids knew what $800 meant in those days or what it could do. I don't know anyone who had a 2nd thought about it, but then again it was ice cream on a hot day at the pool.

The real value of camp cost had, in the 'trick', been imputed to us. The camper counselor made us experience a debt (money, heat without relief, loss of ice cream) so that we would appreciate a credit from a third party.

The counselors were happy to accept thank yous, and some of us climbed up their backs, and some wanted to send a thank you letter to the guy at the church we never met.

This illustration was and is far more valuable than 'accepting Christ into your heart' or other inward stuff we hear these days. Even the 'accepting' part is pursued way too consciously. The Christian believes their debt was paid by a 3rd party, the Mediator Man-God Christ Jesus. What you believe about what goes on inside your heart at the moment really doesn't matter.

 

[God's Truth]

I see by your "Rep" you don't know what you're talking about. Posters aren't buying your posts.

You care more about what men think of you.

Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You care more about what men think of you.

Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Posters don't like, nor believe what you're pushing, that's all.

 

[God's Truth]

If it will help, I'll tell you about me at Bible camp. There was going to be ice cream at the pool the next day if your bill was all paid. Otherwise, they would call your parents and you would wait outside the front gate. No pool that day. You see it was 1965 and I didn't even know how to quantify $50. So I was really bummed. But the next morning, another counselor came through and showed us a document from the office. All of us, in our cabin at least, had their bill paid by somebody in a church who owned the property where this camp was held. There it was--$800 paid for our cabin. We were off the ground.

This shows that nothing could have been done by us; none of us knew how to make a call or even a phone number. But did we accept it? Well sure. Did accepting it have much $ value? None at all. And anyway none of us kids knew what $800 meant in those days or what it could do. I don't know anyone who had a 2nd thought about it, but then again it was ice cream on a hot day at the pool.

The real value of camp cost had, in the 'trick', been imputed to us. The camper counselor made us experience a debt (money, heat without relief, loss of ice cream) so that we would appreciate a credit from a third party.

The counselors were happy to accept thank yous, and some of us climbed up their backs, and some wanted to send a thank you letter to the guy at the church we never met.

This illustration was and is far more valuable than 'accepting Christ into your heart' or other inward stuff we hear these days. Even the 'accepting' part is pursued way too consciously. The Christian believes their debt was paid by a 3rd party, the Mediator Man-God Christ Jesus. What you believe about what goes on inside your heart at the moment really doesn't matter.

You have to come in faith that when you repent of your sins it will be washed clean.

 

[God's Truth]

Posters don't like, nor believe what you're pushing, that's all.

There is power in His Word.

Jesus is God's Word.

You do not get life unless you do what the Word says.

 

[Interplanner]

You have to come in faith that when you repent of your sins it will be washed clean.

Yes, but every day. You are cluttering up things with 'how we think about it' or 'who knows what and when.' Justification is the reality that the total debt is paid. See the parable of the unfaithful manager in Mt 18. After his debt was paid, he tried to EARN his acceptance--I promise I will pay it back, and so he was harsh on his fellow employees. He didn't get it. He didn't hear the reality of total forgiveness. He only thought in terms of what he could do, could earn, what could be seen, what could be shown.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, but every day. You are cluttering up things with 'how we think about it' or 'who knows what and when.'

You will have to explain that further.

Justification is the reality that the total debt is paid. See the parable of the unfaithful manager in Mt 18. After his debt was paid, he tried to EARN his acceptance--I promise I will pay it back, and so he was harsh on his fellow employees. He didn't get it. He didn't hear the reality of total forgiveness. He only thought in terms of what he could do, could earn, what could be seen, what could be shown.

I think you are mixed up about that parable.

The parable is about forgiving others so that God will forgive us.