What is the Gospel?

[God's Truth]

The way I interpret it, Jesus' message was to the House of Israel. He didn't think much of Gentiles and referred to them as "dogs" and made fun of their worship style. The irony is that Christianity is now full of Gentiles who worship Jesus as God, the sin of idolatry.

The outreach to "the nations" was Paul's idea and the gospel writers made sure folks besides the Jews were told the Good News. Besides, the conflict between the Jewish followers of Jesus and those Jews that did not was resulting in Jesus's followers getting kicked out of the synagogues.

Going to all the nations was not Paul's idea. Jesus referred to the non Jews as dogs because like dogs, they did not know their father, the Father God in heaven.

Jesus said he came first for the lost sheep of Israel (the Jews who already belonged to God by faith). It did not take faith in God to obey the old law. Some Jews had faith and obeyed, and some Jews did not have faith and obeyed. Jesus came first for those who had faith in God. They were God's and God gave them to Jesus. They now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

Jesus said when he is crucified, then all could come to him for salvation.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

 

[aikido7]

Jesus began His ministry during the final seven years of the prophecy of seventy sevens (Daniel 9:24-27). The Jews had only a few years left of the prophecy to fully repent in order for Jesus to bring in the kingdom of God during their generation. If the Jews did not repent, the time of the Gentiles would begin at the end of the seventy sevens.

"...the final seven years of the prophecy of seventy sevens" in Daniel sounds like a man-devised theological addition to what is actually IN the text.

If you read the book of Acts, you should find that the outreach to the Gentiles was not Paul's idea.

Acts 9:15 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:​

I see it differently. I see Paul as feeling called to minister to the nations after his auditory epiphany on the way to Damascus. He was called by Jesus to stop persecuting others and so he himself responded to that call--wholeheartedly.

Luke's passage in Acts was simply a way of getting across to his readers that this is what God wants.

But I can never assert that I am right. I wasn't there and can only depend on what is actually written down in the Bible--as well as scholarly and historical research.

 

[genuineoriginal]

"...the final seven years of the prophecy of seventy sevens" in Daniel sounds like a man-devised theological addition to what is actually IN the text.

There have been so many man-devised theological additions to the text that any explanation of the text will be seen as just another man-devised theological addition.

I do not split the last seven years from the continuous seventy sevens of years, like some people do.

The prophecy of the "seventy sevens" of years is a continuous time of 490 years. Messiah the Prince is to be cut off sometime after the 69th seven year period, presumably during the 70th seven year period when the sacrifice and oblation ceased in the middle of that seven year period.

The seventy sevens of years ended after Stephen was stoned to death in Acts 7 and before Peter was told to go to a Gentile in Acts 10.

I see it differently. I see Paul as feeling called to minister to the nations after his auditory epiphany on the way to Damascus. He was called by Jesus to stop persecuting others and so he himself responded to that call--wholeheartedly.

Luke's passage in Acts was simply a way of getting across to his readers that this is what God wants.

But I can never assert that I am right. I wasn't there and can only depend on what is actually written down in the Bible--as well as scholarly and historical research.

The words of the Bible state that it was Ananias who was told what Paul's ministry was to be, over Ananias' objections.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus justifies the ungodly without works, Romans 4:5 and has reconciled us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Paul also said that the Gospel is... "The power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.

The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and how he has in our name and on our behalf victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

Jesus acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we are accepted in him. God now sees us "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Faith without works is a sin.

 

[aikido7]

Which would lead one to conclude that Jesus was not omniscient, and did not see into the future. And thus, was perhaps not fully cognizant of the impact on mankind of his own spiritual revelation. I think he understood that his concept of God transcended the religions of his time, but I don't think he understood just how radically it would do so. He still saw himself as a Jew, preaching to other Jews, not realizing the full extent of how radical and transcendent his message really was.

And the same is true for a great many Christians, today, who still think they are Jews, but yet are not Jews. And have not been able to fully comprehend the magnitude of the revelation they purport to believe in, but instead, have buried themselves in a hodgepodge of semi-Jewish religiosity.

Well put.

Your remarks make more sense than taking the sacred metaphors of our faith literally--instead of seriously. And repeating with an empty head these ancient theological formulations and phrases that are no longer compelling or persuadable in today's world.

 

[aikido7]

There have been so many man-devised theological additions to the text that any explanation of the text will be seen as just another man-devised theological addition.

I do not split the last seven years from the continuous seventy sevens of years, like some people do.

The prophecy of the "seventy sevens" of years is a continuous time of 490 years. Messiah the Prince is to be cut off sometime after the 69th seven year period, presumably during the 70th seven year period when the sacrifice and oblation ceased in the middle of that seven year period.

The seventy sevens of years ended after Stephen was stoned to death in Acts 7 and before Peter was told to go to a Gentile in Acts 10.




The words of the Bible state that it was Ananias who was told what Paul's ministry was to be, over Ananias' objections.

I often use the SV translation (the Scholar's Version) and take Paul at his word that his message was to "the nations."

As far as seven year periods and other modern theology and the like, I can take them seriously but I don't use them in my own studies when I want to find out what a passage or verse meant to its original authors and listeners/readers. Much of the tribulation theology comes from Charles Darby, an ordinary human being who was a preacher in the 19th century.

 

[turbosixx]

The way I interpret it, Jesus' message was to the House of Israel. He didn't think much of Gentiles and referred to them as "dogs" and made fun of their worship style. The irony is that Christianity is now full of Gentiles who worship Jesus as God, the sin of idolatry.

The outreach to "the nations" was Paul's idea and the gospel writers made sure folks besides the Jews were told the Good News. Besides, the conflict between the Jewish followers of Jesus and those Jews that did not was resulting in Jesus's followers getting kicked out of the synagogues.

I see what you’re saying. The way I understand it; Jesus only went to the Jews because they were the ones looking for his arrival and had the scriptures concerning him. After he completed his mission, the word was to go out to everyone, Jews first then Gentiles. Jesus died for everyone.

As far as to the nations being Paul’s idea, I would disagree. Jesus told the apostles (11) to preach to every creature and all the nations, that is everyone.
Matt.28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The gospel Peter preached on Pentecost is the same gospel Paul preached.

 

[Interplanner]

Well put.

Your remarks make more sense than taking the sacred metaphors of our faith literally--instead of seriously. And repeating with an empty head these ancient theological formulations and phrases that are no longer compelling or persuadable in today's world.

To PureX,
what are you saying about Galatians 3? I find it perfectly persuasive. And innovative on what the OT sounds like it is saying.

 

[aikido7]

Please do not go by GM. Surely you can see that you should not go by what he says.

I go by what anyone says on these forums. We are all unique before God and we all deserve a measure of respect and dignity.

At least that's my measly opinion.

 

[God's Truth]

I go by what anyone says on these forums. We are all unique before God and we all deserve a measure of respect and dignity.

At least that's my measly opinion.

GM does not deserve respect, but he gets it.

Now what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[aikido7]

GM does not deserve respect, but he gets it.

Now what does that have to do with what I said?

My world works better if I give respect to everyone. All human behavior is tied to an underlying good intention somewhere in every person's soul. If you can connect with what is alive and human in the other person, you can more easily help build and recognize the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Being a follower of Jesus, I try to use nonviolent action and communication and I have found in my own experience that it works if you give it a chance.

Forgiveness as Jesus demonstrate is reciprocal. We are forgiven to the same extent that we forgive others.

 

[God's Truth]

My world works better if I give respect to everyone. All human behavior is tied to an underlying good intention somewhere in every person's soul. If you can connect with what is alive and human in the other person, you can more easily help build and recognize the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Being a follower of Jesus, I try to use nonviolent action and communication and I have found in my own experience that it works if you give it a chance.

Forgiveness as Jesus demonstrate is reciprocal. We are forgiven to the same extent that we forgive others.

What you say has nothing to do with my saying GM is wrong and should not be believed.

 

[aikido7]

What you say has nothing to do with saying GM is wrong and should not be believed.

Labeling others and making them "wrong" instead of different is far from what Jesus teaches us. What I have said and am saying has a lot to do with judging someone else as "not to be believed."

This is a website where we should expect a healthy mix of diverse viewpoints, thoughts and beliefs. Everyone who contributes is adding to the overall pool of meaning. And everyone deserves an adult and respectful hearing.

There is too much demonizing and name-calling in the world as it is.
We should not be poisoning this particular corner of the universe with invective and mockery.

 

[God's Truth]

Labeling others and making them "wrong" instead of different is far from what Jesus teaches us. What I have said and am saying has a lot to do with judging someone else as "not to be believed."

This is a website where we should expect a healthy mix of diverse viewpoints, thoughts and beliefs. Everyone who contributes is adding to the overall pool of meaning. And everyone deserves an adult and respectful hearing.

There is too much demonizing and name-calling in the world as it is.
We should not be poisoning this particular corner of the universe with invective and mockery.

You are making things up about Jesus and the Bible just to justify going against me for my friendly warning to you about GM's beliefs.

Let it go. You have false beliefs yourself and will not listen either.

 

[popsthebuilder]

John3:14-22

 

[heir]

Paul is speaking of the ceremonial works people used to have to do just to go to the temple where His Spirit was.

Paul was not saying grace is no more obedience!

"and if by grace, then it is no more of works...". You don't believe it. We can all see that by your believe not testimony.

 

[heir]

The circumcised and the uncircumcised are different people, not different gospels.

Anyone who can count, counts two gospels.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Your believe not blinding (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV) has even blinded your ability to count.

 

[heir]

It has ALWAYS ONLY BEEN ONE WAY, and that ONE WAY is believe and obey God!

Many gospels in the Bible, but only one is the power of God to save you (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), but you believe it not to be sufficient to save.

 

[heir]

I've been thinking on this more than one gospel for a while and I'm still trying to understand it. I was thinking about this verse that says the gospel was to the Jews first. Do you see this as more than one gospel? If not, when do you see it presented to the Jews first and by whom?

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

It does not say "the gospel", but "the gospel of Christ" (Romans 1:16 KJV) which was the good news to the Jew first and also to the Greek; that Christ "died for our sins" (the "our" being those to whom Paul was first sent (Acts 13:26 KJV, Acts 26:17 KJV). The gospel of Christ was a mystery before it was revealed from the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ to and through Paul (please read Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, 1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV). Before "that gospel" (Galatians 2:2 KJV which is the gospel that Paul communicated) was preached there were other gospels and after the gospel of the grace of God goes up with the Body of Christ, there will be another gospel in place. This is elementary to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.

 

[Zeke]

Anyone who can count, counts two gospels.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Your believe not blinding (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV) has even blinded your ability to count.

Then why did Paul always go to the Jew first in Acts? Even in Galatians he warned about another gospel and confronted Peter for being double minded, being all things to all people didn't mean there is various gospels or faiths.