Was God responsible for Adam's sin?

[beloved57]

Exactly! God's Will determines all others' will Dan. 4:35 KJV ; Job 21:30 KJV, Job 23:13-14 KJV.

~~~~~

Yes, You see most here believe God responds to evil , responds to men, whereas the Truth is men and devils respond to Gods Eternal Decree and Purpose, God , the True God responds to no ones actions ! They believe Gods Eternal Decrees are a result of Him first seeing how men and or devils will act, then He is wise enough to overrule them, that kind of thinking dishonors God !

 

[Nanja]

Amen ! You are not following me per se, but the Truth of God He has blessed us to believe !

Right. It's God's Will and Pleasure for His Children to hunger for, and discuss His Word together!

Seems that other guy's focus is misguided lain:

~~~~~

 

[nikolai_42]

So your theology essentially says that mass murderers do the will of God? Why even have laws then if whatsoever you do is the will of God? Cain was also a child of Adam and yet you state in the highlighted portion of your comments that all the children of Adam fulfill the will of God. However the Scripture clearly shows that Cain was warned even before he murdered his brother.

Do all Calvinists believe that Cain fulfilled the will of God? :rotfl:

Jumping in here...Try looking at it more from God's viewpoint :

1. Start with the Deist view that God winds up the universe and then lets it run down on its own - not intervening in it. In that scenario you have man's "freedom" being unimpeded - with Adam starting something that God won't change (until Christ). Or at least with mankind being set on a course from the beginning and God gets to see where it ends up (Open Theistic Deism). Either that or it is entirely deterministic and He already knows where without "getting His hands dirty" (Fatalistic Deterministic Deism). You might say it need not be either, but God either sets something going at the beginning knowing how it will all work out because He did it or He sets it going and waits to see where it ends up. If His will ultimately prevails, then the Open Theistic Deism doesn't seem to be able to stand here. But fatalism doesn't get a good reception either (with good cause, I think).

2. Now take the baseline Deistic assumption of non-intervention and add the idea that God actually does intervene in human history. Every time He does, history is changed (at least from man's point of view). And if God simply foreknew what would happen from the beginning in a passive sense, does that mean He foreknew that He would set things going and then have to intervene at countless points in between the beginning of time and the end? The thing is, that also implies that He knows (from time immemorial) that He would NOT have to intervene at other points in time. How does He know this? If man truly has libertarian free will, how does He know how man will react? Remember, we are dealing with an omnipotent, omniscient God. So the murderer can easily be stopped and changed by God - anytime He chooses. So what it comes to is that God not only permits the freedom of man to choose wickedness, but that becomes the vehicle He uses (Himself) to ultimately bring glory to His name and to fulfill all His will.

Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.
Psalm 76:10

It's not a question that man ponders, contemplates and even wills all sorts of things in his heart that are wicked beyond belief - maybe even seemingly good - but what actually happens is entirely in the Lord's hands. It has to be or predictive prophecy is just a surprisingly good guess instead of a declaration from the Lord Himself.

Just some thoughts...

 

[Nanja]

Yes, You see most here believe God responds to evil , responds to men, whereas the Truth is men and devils respond to Gods Eternal Decree and Purpose, God , the True God responds to no ones actions ! They believe Gods Eternal Decrees are a result of Him first seeing how men and or devils will act, then He is wise enough to overrule them, that kind of thinking dishonors God !

Everything a man does has been appointed by God.

That's the True God and Creator of the universe, which men despise.
For it is He Who has predetermined the workings of all people, places and things as He so Desires!

~~~~~

 

[Crucible]

Everything a man does has been appointed by God.

That's the True God and Creator of the universe, which men despise.
For it is He Who has predetermined the workings of all people, places and things as He so Desires!

~~~~~

Exactly. God utilizes all according to their purpose.

Man's biggest intellectual blunder is accepting God and rejecting fate.

 

[Truster]

Exactly. God utilizes all according to their purpose.

Man's biggest intellectual blunder is accepting God and rejecting fate.

The fact you use the term fate means you don't truly understand.

 

[Nanja]

Exactly. God utilizes all according to their purpose.

God uses all according to His Purpose!

~~~~~

 

[jamie]

I returned and saw under the sun that—

The race is not to the swift,
Nor the battle to the strong,
Nor bread to the wise,
Nor riches to men of understanding,
Nor favor to men of skill;
But time and chance happen to them all.

(Ecclesiastes 9:11 NKJV)​

 

[beloved57]

Everything a man does has been appointed by God.

That's the True God and Creator of the universe, which men despise.
For it is He Who has predetermined the workings of all people, places and things as He so Desires!

~~~~~

Amen and Amazing!

 

[Crucible]

Arminian belief:

Free will exists, but God is in control.

Because forget logic.

 

[Zeke]

So your theology essentially says that mass murderers do the will of God? Why even have laws then if whatsoever you do is the will of God? Cain was also a child of Adam and yet you state in the highlighted portion of your comments that all the children of Adam fulfill the will of God. However the Scripture clearly shows that Cain was warned even before he murdered his brother.

Do all Calvinists believe that Cain fulfilled the will of God? :rotfl:

Galatians 4:24-28, Same thing as Cain and Able (no mention of Adam knowing Eve before Able was born) and the other twins through scripture, A Metaphorical murder not physical in my estimation and experience.

 

[Nanja]

Amen and Amazing!

So true, and even to the extent of every word which is spoken!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

So true, and even to the extent of every word which is spoken!

~~~~~

Yeah ,every thought we think !

 

[daqq]

Galatians 4:24-28, Same thing as Cain and Able (no mention of Adam knowing Eve before Able was born) and the other twins through scripture, A Metaphorical murder not physical in my estimation and experience.

Yes, but some surely believe Cain and Abel to have been literal people as opposed to merely allegories. The issue doesn't really matter in terms of the point I was trying to make because there are some who clearly believe Cain was a literal man who literally murdered his brother and that it was the sovereign "will of God", (yikes!). As we know, whosoever hates his brother is accounted as a murderer according to Yeshua, (Matthew 15:19) and 1 John 3:12-15. Also, concerning the topic, the Father hides His face from the evils of His people, (Deut 31:17, 18, Deut 32:19-20) and His eyes, which are seven Spirits sent forth into all the earth, report back to Him: it is the Elohim which "know evil", (and good) not the Father.

 

[Truster]

Yes, but some surely believe Cain and Abel to have been literal people as opposed to merely allegories. The issue doesn't really matter in terms of the point I was trying to make because there are some who clearly believe Cain was a literal man who literally murdered his brother and that it was the sovereign "will of God", (yikes!). As we know, whosoever hates his brother is accounted as a murderer according to Yeshua, (Matthew 15:19) and 1 John 3:12-15. Also, concerning the topic, the Father hides His face from the evils of His people, (Deut 31:17, 18, Deut 32:19-20) and His eyes, which are seven Spirits sent forth into all the earth, report back to Him: it is the Elohim which "know evil", (and good) not the Father.

Cain and Abel were literal and they were the first twins.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You didn't see the wink? It was a joke.


Freewill "theology" doesn't blame God for creating us with freewill. We praise Him.
Nor do we blame God when we choose to disobey God. God made us higher than the animals, capable of reasoning and choosing to do right or wrong.

And we thank Him that He didn't create puppets who would use their inability as an excuse for their behavior.....puppets would have a reason to blame God, but God says man is without excuse.

Standard bot response....did someone push a button?

Have I got freewill? of course God granted me freewill...just like a puppet.

So....you've got freewill then...can you do whatever you want to?

well .... er no

Isn't that what feewill means?

ah.. no

What can it mean then?

I can do whatever God allows me to do

Oh....I think I see, but you can stop sinning ... right?

Um...well

But isn't it your will to stop sinning?

Yes but...

Where does the bible say God gave man freewill?

Well it doesn't actually say it but everyone knows

....see the wink?

 

[Totton Linnet]

God didn't create evil. He only left room for it to come into being.

Ah uh oh, well God said He did

 

[Crucible]

God didn't create evil. He only left room for it to come into being.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."


:think:

 

[daqq]

Cain and Abel were literal and they were the first twins.

See what I mean Zeke? :crackup:

This person believes Cain and Abel were literal people, and that Cain literally physically murdered his brother Abel, and that Cain by his murderous actions fulfilled the will of God in murdering his brother Abel, (and again, yikes!).

 

[Zeke]

Yes, but some surely believe Cain and Abel to have been literal people as opposed to merely allegories. The issue doesn't really matter in terms of the point I was trying to make because there are some who clearly believe Cain was a literal man who literally murdered his brother and that it was the sovereign "will of God", (yikes!). As we know, whosoever hates his brother is accounted as a murderer according to Yeshua, (Matthew 15:19) and 1 John 3:12-15. Also, concerning the topic, the Father hides His face from the evils of His people, (Deut 31:17, 18, Deut 32:19-20) and His eyes, which are seven Spirits sent forth into all the earth, report back to Him: it is the Elohim which "know evil", (and good) not the Father.

It does contribute to ones actions in the physical creation though, which rationalizes religious and ethnic hate when these stories are historized and extroverted.