ECT True or False question (Billy Graham)

[Derf]

If someone knows he/she is a sinner, what do they need to know to be saved? Tell me exactly what you think.

What do they need to know? Or what do they need to believe? Just knowing Jesus is lord is insufficient. The demons know and tremble. Yea, they believe, too.

 

[way 2 go]

What is the one thing that He asks?
That we believe and trust in Him.
We can do that with our whole body, soul, and spirit.

by faith alone just like Abraham's first covenant


Abram believed God

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

 

[glorydaz]

You should be careful. Those scriptures are about not working at cleaning ourselves by doing the purification/ceremonial works of the law.

No they aren't. You're spitting on the Gospel of Grace you heathen. :down:

 

[God's Truth]

No they aren't. You're spitting on the Gospel of Grace you heathen. :down:

No such thing as 'obeying' Jesus being equivalent to 'spit'.

 

[glorydaz]

What do they need to know? Or what do they need to believe? Just knowing Jesus is lord is insufficient. The demons know and tremble. Yea, they believe, too.

Believing in your heart is the key.

 

[God's Truth]

What do they need to know? Or what do they need to believe? Just knowing Jesus is lord is insufficient. The demons know and tremble. Yea, they believe, too.

Even the demons believe/know God is God; and, they do something, they shudder.

That means we have to believe and obey.

 

[Derf]

This issue is not as complicated as all are making it.

The work has been done.

It is finished.

Christ died for our sins.

And the moment one believes that; the Spirit then declares one the Righteousness of God in His Son, and comes to live in His inward man.

One's inward man is then indwelt by the Spirit.

Which is nevertheless surrounded by a body of sinful flesh; a flesh with its own will and agenda.

At the same time, the inward man is enabled to walk in the Spirit by the Spirit - but only as one chooses to walk in Him - by faith.

Only as one chooses to die to the flesh by faith - each moment it comes calling.

The entire dynamic is like that between an automobile with a full tank of fuel, and its driver.

Both are able to rely on that fuel towards helping to get someone to get where they have set out to get to, but there that fully fueled automobile sits - until one does something about that - until one gets in that automobile, turns that key and gets a move on.

As ye have therefore received Him - by faith - so walk ye in Him - by faith.

At which point the Spirit then empowers one to be able to walk in Him.

To walk in the one is to die to the other.

To die to the one is to live unto the other.

And the fact that the Apostle Paul invests a very high majority of his writings on this repeated emphasis on the need to die to the one and to living to the other, makes it obvious there is a difference between justification (having been declared the Righteousness of God in His Son by faith) and sanctification (daily, moment by moment consciously choosing to separate oneself from the one, by faith, towards walking in the other - in said Righteousness, by faith).

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This putting on of this new man is sort of like when a teacher says "okay, boys and girls, time to put on our thinking caps..."

That teacher does not mean that said ability to think was not already present, rather, that it is time to consciously walk in said ability.

The opposite being those times we are all familiar with. Those moments of "what in the world was I thinking!"

Likewise with Paul's put on the new man.

He means to consciously choose to walk in this new man we as Believers have been made in Christ.

If any man be in Christ, he is...a new creature.

Towards what intent?

Towards keeping one out of hell?

No!

That is just a side benefit.

The real issue for God as to why He is even saving anyone is towards our walking in Him to the Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit, in this New Creature of His: the Body of Christ for all Creation to behold, during this Mystery Age.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Our access of that is accessed by simply consciously choosing to look out at, and walk in all things, in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

Not meaning to be rude, but that is probably the most cogent post I ever seen from you. Nicely done!

 

[glorydaz]

No such thing as 'obeying' Jesus being equivalent to 'spit'.

You are spitting on the Gospel of Grace. Heathen. We are saved by grace through faith and all your stupid claims about the dead works of the Jews has nothing to do with the text in Eph. 2.

You're simply too ignorant and filled with stubborn pride to admit it.....although you've been told over and over again by nearly everyone on this site. You sicken true believers with your lies. Spit is putting it nicely.

 

[way 2 go]

Not meaning to be rude, but that is probably the most cogent post I ever seen from you. Nicely done!

would not have read that if not for you . thanks.

 

[God's Truth]

You are spitting on the Gospel of Grace. Heathen. We are saved by grace through faith and all your stupid claims about the dead works of the Jews has nothing to do with the text in Eph. 2.

It is never a dead work to obey Jesus. According to you, Jesus taught dead works. Never ever is what you say true.

 

[Derf]

Believing in your heart is the key.

And what does that look like? Should we not be confessing that Jesus is "Lord" as much as we are believing in our hearts?

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [Rom 10:9 NLT]



PS. I still haven't responded to your last post to me. Wanted to think through it a bit.

 

[Danoh]

Not meaning to be rude, but that is probably the most cogent post I ever seen from you. Nicely done!

:rotfl:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[God's Truth]

:rotfl:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Derf sounds like you, Danoh...one of those insult compliments.

 

[Danoh]

Derf sounds like you, Danoh...one of those insult compliments.

Nah, that is just you - reading that into his words.

I was laughing because I simply found his words to me about my post funny.

I found no veiled insult in them.

None.

But you and others on here often do that - read some veiled evil into another's words only present within your own self-deluded minds.

Try taking yourselves a bit less seriously, and you'll find your "conspiracy" theories go up in the smoke they are actually made up of.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[glorydaz]

And what does that look like? Should we not be confessing that Jesus is "Lord" as much as we are believing in our hearts?

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [Rom 10:9 NLT]



PS. I still haven't responded to your last post to me. Wanted to think through it a bit.

I'm sure you know what it means, Derf.

Whenever you see the word IF, you can know it's not attached to the GIFT of Salvation. Believe.....

One can get legalistic ...adding "confession of sin", or "confessing with the mouth", or any number of other things, but it's BELIEF (FAITH) that saves. And it's God who sees into our heart. Acknowledging our Lord God and Saviour, Jesus Christ is what we were created for. Turning from unbelief to belief is man's calling.

 

[God's Truth]

Nah, that is just you - reading that into his words.

I was laughing because I simply found his words to me about my post funny.

I found no veiled insult in them.

None.

But you and others on here often do that - read some veiled evil into another's words only present within your own self-deluded minds.

Try taking yourselves a bit less seriously, and you'll find your "conspiracy" theories go up in the smoke they are actually made up of.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

You are wrong about me. Oh and, I don't believe you.

 

[Derf]

How much control of your flesh have you given to the Holy Spirit?
All or just a portion?

In case you haven't heard, Jesus has already completed that task.

Has He? Then why does sin still exist and plague us? And why is it that while we have died to sin, we still have to die in the flesh.

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [1Co 15:42 KJV]
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [1Co 15:43 KJV]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [Rom 6:16 KJV]
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [Rom 6:17 KJV]
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [Rom 6:18 KJV]
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [Rom 6:19 KJV]

 

[Derf]

I'm sure you know what it means, Derf.

Whenever you see the word IF, you can know it's not attached to the GIFT of Salvation. Believe.....

One can get legalistic ...adding "confession of sin", or "confessing with the mouth", or any number of other things, but it's BELIEF (FAITH) that saves. And it's God who sees into our heart. Acknowledging our Lord God and Saviour, Jesus Christ is what we were created for. Turning from unbelief to belief is man's calling.

Indeed! And what if we don't heed that calling? What if we don't take that first step of obedience?

Don't you see? There is no belief in Jesus without obeying His command to believe. And there's no obedience unless we believe that He can command us.

You can't separate the two.

Trust and Obey, for there's no other way.

 

[Tambora]

Has He? Then why does sin still exist and plague us? And why is it that while we have died to sin, we still have to die in the flesh.

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [1Co 15:42 KJV]
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [1Co 15:43 KJV]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [Rom 6:16 KJV]
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [Rom 6:17 KJV]
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [Rom 6:18 KJV]
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [Rom 6:19 KJV]

Hold on.

I had asked .....

How much control of your flesh have you given to the Holy Spirit?
All or just a portion?

Your answer may help you figure out why EVERYONE still sins after being saved and sealed.

 

[Derf]

Our journey here on earth....which is why we groan. Whether I'm safe within the shelter of His arms right here on earth or in heaven, I don't really care. I'm sure it will be great, but I'm complete in Him right now. Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:



I don't know any true believer that doesn't want to please the Lord. Paul wasn't even saying it was possible, which is why he said, God forbid. He was making a broader point about sin and it's bondage.



Believing means we have been crucified with Christ....are dead to sin, and are no longer servants of sin. As Paul makes clear, we have been delivered from the bondage of the law...hence the lure of forbidden fruit has lost it's draw. We don't "want" to do what we used to quite freely.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​

I can't add anything to that.