ECT True or False question (Billy Graham)

True or False question (Billy Graham)


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turbosixx

New member
How about the work of Christ?
Do any inspired writers tell us about the "work" of Christ. I suggest this is a creation of man.

On Baptism, remember I'd said that it was a transliteration and have a hard time explaining exactly what it is. We do know from history, that people who changed religion did so to show a clean break. It was a declaration. For you and I, in Christ, that change is wrought by Him. We are new creations. There is nothing you can do to help Jesus with that. John 15:5 1 Corinthians 4:7 (had that last one memorized, need to work on it again. It's important).

I read that Jesus instructed the apostles to make Christians baptizing them in his name. I read the apostles converting people doing just that. Paul traveled the world converting Christians. On his third journey he baptized men in the name of Jesus, just like those at the beginning. The letters Paul writes to these "Christians" should agree with what we see him teaching on all of his journey. He never stopped baptizing believers.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I don't think the continuance of a Christian life is really any different than the start of a Christian life, do you?

If we are to be repenting and believing as we continue to follow Christ, then it seems that beginning to repent and believe is necessary to begin to follow Christ.

Is the moment of salvation a magic moment, where we only do that thing one time?

Aren't we to cling to the Rock of our salvation at every moment, once we start to cling?


If someone knows he/she is a sinner, what do they need to know to be saved? Tell me exactly what you think.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
But we look forward to a more permanent tent. That permanent tent is not the one we have right now. Yes, you are right to consider yourself totally saved in that He who began a good work in us will be faithful to complete it. But it isn't complete yet. What remains to be completed???

Our journey here on earth....which is why we groan. Whether I'm safe within the shelter of His arms right here on earth or in heaven, I don't really care. I'm sure it will be great, but I'm complete in Him right now. Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

When I say we don't want to presume upon our salvation, I mean that we should NOT continue in sin, just knowing the the good grace of our Lord will cover everything, so we do whatever we want. That means He's NOT our Lord.

I don't know any true believer that doesn't want to please the Lord. Paul wasn't even saying it was possible, which is why he said, God forbid. He was making a broader point about sin and it's bondage.

Repentance means that we have the same attitude as Paul in Rom 6.

Believing means we have been crucified with Christ....are dead to sin, and are no longer servants of sin. As Paul makes clear, we have been delivered from the bondage of the law...hence the lure of forbidden fruit has lost it's draw. We don't "want" to do what we used to quite freely.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​
 

Danoh

New member
That good work has not been completed in me. My flesh still wants its own way. My mind/heart wants to follow Christ.

There are quite a few fleshly things I've learned to control with the Spirit's help, by walking in the Spirit.

But my flesh is not sinning now as much as it used to. The Spirit, praise the Lord, is making progress in me!

Have you not given the Holy Spirit ANY control over your flesh? When are you going to? Do you really sin just as much today as when you first believed? Do you not believe that Jesus Christ has the power to save us from sin?

This issue is not as complicated as all are making it.

The work has been done.

It is finished.

Christ died for our sins.

And the moment one believes that; the Spirit then declares one the Righteousness of God in His Son, and comes to live in His inward man.

One's inward man is then indwelt by the Spirit.

Which is nevertheless surrounded by a body of sinful flesh; a flesh with its own will and agenda.

At the same time, the inward man is enabled to walk in the Spirit by the Spirit - but only as one chooses to walk in Him - by faith.

Only as one chooses to die to the flesh by faith - each moment it comes calling.

The entire dynamic is like that between an automobile with a full tank of fuel, and its driver.

Both are able to rely on that fuel towards helping to get someone to get where they have set out to get to, but there that fully fueled automobile sits - until one does something about that - until one gets in that automobile, turns that key and gets a move on.

As ye have therefore received Him - by faith - so walk ye in Him - by faith.

At which point the Spirit then empowers one to be able to walk in Him.

To walk in the one is to die to the other.

To die to the one is to live unto the other.

And the fact that the Apostle Paul invests a very high majority of his writings on this repeated emphasis on the need to die to the one and to living to the other, makes it obvious there is a difference between justification (having been declared the Righteousness of God in His Son by faith) and sanctification (daily, moment by moment consciously choosing to separate oneself from the one, by faith, towards walking in the other - in said Righteousness, by faith).

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This putting on of this new man is sort of like when a teacher says "okay, boys and girls, time to put on our thinking caps..."

That teacher does not mean that said ability to think was not already present, rather, that it is time to consciously walk in said ability.

The opposite being those times we are all familiar with. Those moments of "what in the world was I thinking!"

Likewise with Paul's put on the new man.

He means to consciously choose to walk in this new man we as Believers have been made in Christ.

If any man be in Christ, he is...a new creature.

Towards what intent?

Towards keeping one out of hell?

No!

That is just a side benefit.

The real issue for God as to why He is even saving anyone is towards our walking in Him to the Glory of God in His Son by the Spirit, in this New Creature of His: the Body of Christ for all Creation to behold, during this Mystery Age.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Our access of that is accessed by simply consciously choosing to look out at, and walk in all things, in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
 

God's Truth

New member
No, you're right. Just as He is Lord of even those going to hell.

If you do not obey Him, you obey the devil and are the devil's child.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

John 8:38
I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father

John 8:41
You are doing the works of your own father." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

John 8:55
Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.

1 John 2:4
Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

1 John 3:10
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Perfect example, means that Jesus lived a perfect life being an example for us, and we are to follow his example.

1 Peter 2

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Also, what do you think of these verses? Here's Jesus, Peter and Paul telling us to turn from sin. So I believe that we are to turn from sin and obey God.

Matthew 16

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And this one

Acts 5

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And this

Colossians 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Hold on there ......

Since you are the one that brought up asking for the Holy Spirit's control, why haven't you answered as to whether the Holy Spirit has control of you when you sin????
Which is it, you in control of you when you sin or the Holy Spirit in control of you when you sin?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Men and women have to obey God before they receive the Holy Spirit, we won't be partakers of the fruit of the Spirit if we are not willing to obey the living God.

Acts 5

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And the Lord had not yet appeared to Paul with the Gospel of Grace. :nono:



The wrong side of the cross is not being willing to take up our cross to follow Christ Jesus!

Nope, the wrong side of the cross is thinking you have a cross to bear, instead of trusting in our Lord's work on the Cross.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
What? So you don't believe that the Holy Spirit helps you to overcome sin?
You're the one that brought up giving up control to the Holy Spirit.
Is the Holy Spirit controlling you now?
Is the Holy Spirit in control of you when you sin?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Have you not given the Holy Spirit ANY control over your flesh?
How much control of your flesh have you given to the Holy Spirit?
All or just a portion?

Do you not believe that Jesus Christ has the power to save us from sin?
In case you haven't heard, Jesus has already completed that task.
 

musterion

Well-known member
There is no such thing as obeying Jesus wrongly.

Matthew 7:22-23

He does not call them liars and deny they did the things they claimed. They DID, and DO, do them. Just like you. But they're lawless because they never knew Him and He never knew them.

You reject the only saving Gospel today. You do not know Him. He is not yours. You are not His. It isn't possible.
 

God's Truth

New member
Matthew 7:22-23

He does not call them liars and deny they did the things they claimed. They DID, and DO, do them. Just like you. But they're lawless because they never knew Him and He never knew them.

You reject the only saving Gospel today. You do not know Him. He is not yours. You are not His. It isn't possible.

They might have cast out demons in Jesus' name and prophesied---but Jesus doesn't tell everyone to do that to be saved. Jesus tells us to REPENT OF OUR SINS to be saved. Jesus told those people that they still sinned so he never knew them.

Jesus knows those who repent of their sins. Those are the people who get saved and are loved by God.
 

God's Truth

New member
John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands; and His commands are not irksome

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

...and many more.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Do any inspired writers tell us about the "work" of Christ. I suggest this is a creation of man.
John 15:5 1 Corinthians 4:7 (had that last one memorized, need to work on it again. It's important).
Ephesians 2:8&9 as well. If what we believe isn't seated in scripture, we'd best be careful what our doctrine says.


I read that Jesus instructed the apostles to make Christians baptizing them in his name. I read the apostles converting people doing just that. Paul traveled the world converting Christians. On his third journey he baptized men in the name of Jesus, just like those at the beginning. The letters Paul writes to these "Christians" should agree with what we see him teaching on all of his journey. He never stopped baptizing believers.
You'll have to deconstruct it for me, because I'm not seeing it: 1Corinthians 1:10-17 Acts 19:
 

God's Truth

New member
Ephesians 2:8&9 as well. If what we believe isn't seated in scripture, we'd best be careful what our doctrine says.

You should be careful. Those scriptures are about not working at cleaning ourselves by doing the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
 
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