Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

[jzeidler]

Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

I said

Your under some sort of carnal delusion that you can understand the old testament. What you think you see is covered by the veil.

What I said still stands. Deal with it.



2 Cor 3:13-15

13unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)

You're very wrong. Verse 14 shows that your wrong. It says that Jesus has taken away the veil. I am in Christ, I have the Holy Spirit, the veil is taken away. Besides, Paul was talking about the Jews having a veil on them when they read the OT because they don't believe in Christ. I'm not a Jew and I believe in Christ. I am in Christ, no veil for me. Also you didn't answer my question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God?

 

[Squeaky]

You're very wrong. Verse 14 shows that your wrong. It says that Jesus has taken away the veil. I am in Christ, I have the Holy Spirit, the veil is taken away. Besides, Paul was talking about the Jews having a veil on them when they read the OT because they don't believe in Christ. I'm not a Jew and I believe in Christ. I am in Christ, no veil for me. Also you didn't answer my question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God?

I said
lolol Your a child. Only children think they can turn something around with words like that.
Anyway I'm a 68 year old man. In Christ means in the new testament. But the veil is steal over the old testament.

 

[oatmeal]

Yep.

1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

The ASV recognizes that the texts do not include your favorite phrase but was a much later addition.

I John 5:6-8 ASV

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.

7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

 

[oatmeal]

John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John 14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He

Since the Father is greater than the son, they are not "co-equal".

"Co-equal" is an essential part of the definition of the trinity, thus the trinity as traditionally defined is wrong.

 

[oatmeal]

Squeaky on TOL is a delusion.

Bright Raven,

That is the usual trin reply when scripture is staring you in the face.

Instead of replying with scripture, you sling mud.

John 10:30 the Father and Jesus Christ are one in purpose, see context.

But the Holy Spirit is not?

 

[jzeidler]

I said

lolol Your a child. Only children think they can turn something around with words like that.

Anyway I'm a 68 year old man. In Christ means in the new testament. But the veil is steal over the old testament.

So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

 

[aikido7]

The Doctrine of the Trinity is like any other man-made theology:

It is a helpful "catch all" or "shortcut" to making meaning out of some authentic, historical events.

In that respect, it is not factually correct. It is a faith statement, not a literal truth.

 

[Squeaky]

So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

I said
What name calling? I have already proven my claim on the old testament with these verses.

2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

And all your gross exaggeration is just childish.

 

[Squeaky]

The Doctrine of the Trinity is like any other man-made theology:

It is a helpful "catch all" or "shortcut" to making meaning out of some authentic, historical events.

In that respect, it is not factually correct. It is a faith statement, not a literal truth.

I said
It appears they try to make Jesus into God. To remove the possibility of Him being an example that we should follow. If He is a God there is no way that we could join in His sufferings. But if He was a man tempted as we are. That causes fear that we cant do it. Its a trick of the devil.

Heb 4:13-16
we must give account.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
(NKJ)

 

[Caino]

So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

Anti-divinity preachers have their pride invested in their positions, they aren't reasonable people. You can talk to Squeaky about his Squeakology for 10 years, they just don't do change.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

What name calling? I have already proven my claim on the old testament with these verses.



2 Cor 3:14-15

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)



And all your gross exaggeration is just childish.

You proved nothing. KEEP READING!!

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is REMOVED.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with UNVEILED face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

it is that simple. Keep reading so that you can get context and understand. Those who turn to Christ have no veil because Jesus removed it. Your point is dead.

 

[jzeidler]

Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

Anti-divinity preachers have their pride invested in their positions, they aren't reasonable people. You can talk to Squeaky about his Squeakology for 10 years, they just don't do change.

Ah understood. I mean, as I'm looking at what he is saying the Holy Spirit is bringing things to me and the Lord (not me) is destroying squeakys flimsy arguments yet he doesn't see. It's like he has a veil over his heart and eyes. I feel sorry for him.

 

[Squeaky]

You proved nothing. KEEP READING!!

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is REMOVED.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with UNVEILED face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

it is that simple. Keep reading so that you can get context and understand. Those who turn to Christ have no veil because Jesus removed it. Your point is dead.

I said
Context, context, context. When one turns to the new testament the veil is taken away.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 3:16-18
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(NKJ)

 

[jzeidler]

I said

Context, context, context. When one turns to the new testament the veil is taken away.



John 10:8-9

8"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

(NKJ)



2 Cor 3:16-18

16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

17Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

(NKJ)

I'll kind of agree because in the NT we see JESUS. But context and verse says 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

It's when they turn to Christ that the veil is taken away and can understand both old and new for in this whole context that is what is being talked about. The old and new covenants.

 

[Squeaky]

I'll kind of agree because in the NT we see JESUS. But context and verse says 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

It's when they turn to Christ that the veil is taken away and can understand both old and new for in this whole context that is what is being talked about. The old and new covenants.

I said
Well we will have to agree to disagree then. And risk falling from grace. Because if you keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You will fall from grace.


Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)


And anyone who trusts in the old testament does not have the right God or the right Jesus.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

 

[jzeidler]

Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

I said

Well we will have to agree to disagree then. And risk falling from grace. Because if you keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You will fall from grace.





Gal 5:1-4



1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(NKJ)





And anyone who trusts in the old testament does not have the right God or the right Jesus.



II Jn 1:8-11

8Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

(NKJ)

I'm not keeping the old covenant. I think all of it was fulfilled by Jesus and none of it has any holds on us. I'm not falling from grace since I'm not putting myself under any performance based religion/law Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Not sure where you got the idea I wanted to keep the old covenant. I don't want to keep the old covenant but because of Christ lifting the veil from our hearts and minds we can understand what is in the Old Testament as context for the New.

 

[Squeaky]

Old Testament as context for the New.

I said
You have fallen for it.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

You have fallen for it.

Alright I'm done. Obviously you don't want to listen to the word of God. I feel sorry for you.

 

[oatmeal]

Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. John 1:1-2, 14, Jn. 1:18 Phil. 2:5-8, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:10, Is. 9:6, Mk. 1:2-3, Lk. 1:17, Ac. 2:21, Mt. 4:1-2, Mt. 8:23-24, Lk. 2:52, Lk. 24:39, Jn. 1:14, Heb. 2:17-18, Heb. 2:14.

So where is your list of verses that state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

Why doesn't God, the author of scripture tell us that in scripture?

For that matter why doesn't God use invented words, trinity, triune, mother of God, God the Son, God-man, etc....?

Since God does not use those words to describe himself, who are you to use them?

You have a better vocabulary than the Creator?

 

[Squeaky]

So where is your list of verses that state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

Why doesn't God, the author of scripture tell us that in scripture?

For that matter why doesn't God use invented words, trinity, triune, mother of God, God the Son, God-man, etc....?

Since God does not use those words to describe himself, who are you to use them?

You have a better vocabulary than the Creator?

I said
lol Boy your laying it on heavy. I was trying to be gentle.