Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

[JFish123]

I said

well if the Father is greater than Jesus. That means the Father is the only God.

If Jesus is God, why did Jesus say the Father was greater than He (John 14:28)?
He said this because His position was different from that of God the Father--not His nature. Heb. 2:9 says that Jesus was made for a little while lower than the angels, and Gal. 4:4 says that He was under the Law. Therefore, as a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father but not different in nature. This would also explain why He grew in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52).
By comparison, a husband is the head of the family, and the wife is not. Though their positions are different, he has greater authority. Their natures are the same. This is how it works with Jesus. His nature is the same as the Father, but He was sent by the Father (John 6:44) and was in a lesser position due to His incarnation and being under the Law.

 

[Squeaky]

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

I said
Well if that were true don't you think One of them would have said that. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Paul said we only have one God, the Father.
Are you suggesting that Jesus or Paul made a mistake?

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

If Jesus is God, why did Jesus say the Father was greater than He (John 14:28)?
He said this because His position was different from that of God the Father--not His nature. Heb. 2:9 says that Jesus was made for a little while lower than the angels, and Gal. 4:4 says that He was under the Law. Therefore, as a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father but not different in nature. This would also explain why He grew in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52).
By comparison, a husband is the head of the family, and the wife is not. Though their positions are different, he has greater authority. Their natures are the same. This is how it works with Jesus. His nature is the same as the Father, but He was sent by the Father (John 6:44) and was in a lesser position due to His incarnation and being under the Law.

I said
So then you see that Jesus couldn't have been God.

 

[Squeaky]

It happened in eternity past. Oops, there is that word eternity again. We know what that means.

I said
Does the word eternity bother you? Do you know the meaning of eternity. There are two. One is no beginning and no end. The other is any given point of time to no end of time. We are going to live in eternity. Eternal life in heaven. The same as Jesus had a beginning and He is going to live in heaven for eternity.
Which one do you use?

 

[jzeidler]

I said

lol So your a muslim.

Haha no, I'm using it because you don't believe Jesus is God, Muslims don't believe either. So the speaker answered the muslim's question and showed that Jesus is God. Watch it again and try to learn from it rather than thinking I'm a Muslim.

 

[jzeidler]

If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

 

[Squeaky]

Haha no, I'm using it because you don't believe Jesus is God, Muslims don't believe either. So the speaker answered the muslim's question and showed that Jesus is God. Watch it again and try to learn from it rather than thinking I'm a Muslim.

I said
lol You want me to take the opinion of someone else over the Holy Spirit and the Word? I don't think so.

 

[Squeaky]

If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

I said
Because He claimed He was the Son of God. And no one had received the Holy Spirit yet.

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

 

[Caino]

If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

Good point! The anti-divinity crowd will appeal to secondary references to Jesus and avoid what he so plainly said about himself as well as what he did.

But the apostles didn't believe either until they saw it with their own eyes.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

lol You want me to take the opinion of someone else over the Holy Spirit and the Word? I don't think so.

I would like you to take the truth of scripture. He is quoting in context the word of God. To ignore it is to ignore God in order to stay in a comfortable place in your life rather than challenge yourself with the possibility that you might be wrong and in doing so learning something.

 

[jzeidler]

Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

I said

Because He claimed He was the Son of God. And no one had received the Holy Spirit yet.



John 7:39

39But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

(NKJ)

Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself EQUAL with God.

Also your verse is talking about why the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet. He haven't come yet because Jesus haven't died and rose again (glorified) making those who believe in him "the righteousness of God in Christ" the cross and resurrection had to occur before the Holy Spirit could come. That verse has nothing to do with your claim of Jesus not being God. In fact it goes into the finality of the cross. Jesus had to die and rase in order to make Christians justified, sanctified, and holy before the Holy Spirit could dwell in us.

 

[Squeaky]

Good point! The anti-divinity crowd will appeal to secondary references to Jesus and avoid what he so plainly said about himself as well as what he did.

But the apostles didn't believe either until they saw it with their own eyes.

I said
Secondary references??????? That is all the trinity has is circumstantial verses. Here are factual verses against the trinity.
Jesus says the Father is the only true God

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Jesus says we have the very same God and the very same Father that He does.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

I said
Paul says yet for us there is one God, the Father
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Jesus is between God and man.

1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself EQUAL with God.

Also your verse is talking about why the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet. He haven't come yet because Jesus haven't died and rose again (glorified) making those who believe in him "the righteousness of God in Christ" the cross and resurrection had to occur before the Holy Spirit could come. That verse has nothing to do with your claim of Jesus not being God. In fact it goes into the finality of the cross. Jesus had to die and rase in order to make Christians justified, sanctified, and holy before the Holy Spirit could dwell in us.

I said
God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

 

[Caino]

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

True again! Whatever Jesus said, the Hebrew experts knew what he meant. The anti-divinity crowd basically argues that Jesus went around misleading people.

 

[Caino]

T
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TEMPLE, IN THREE DAYS,​

D
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I WILL RAISE IT UP​

No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.​

 

[jzeidler]

I said

God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.

If this is how it really went down why didn't Jesus just simply say this to the high priest at his trial rather than give him another very clear Hebrew picture that Jesus is claiming to be God when he says he is the son of man coming on the clouds (watch the video). If he isn't really God he should have just said to the high priest "Oh sorry I guess you mis-understand my obvious claims to be God but I'm actually not. I'm just his son just like you're his son." That makes no sense for Jesus to clearly claim to be God because the Son of Man in that OT passages accepts worship. Something only God can accept. Did Jesus lie to the high priest? Because it is clear that he is claiming to be God there that's why the high priest got so angry and tore his cloths.

Also, if you read Isaiah 6 you will see that the prophet calls Jesus MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Clearly saying that this Baby will be God.

 

[Squeaky]

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

I said
To the Jew that didn't have the Holy Spirit. There are people today that don't have the Holy Spirit that think that Jesus is God. But who's opinion should we go by. The unlearned or the learned.

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

If this is how it really went down why didn't Jesus just simply say this to the high priest at his trial rather than give him another very clear Hebrew picture that Jesus is claiming to be God when he says he is the son of man coming on the clouds (watch the video). If he isn't really God he should have just said to the high priest "Oh sorry I guess you mis-understand my obvious claims to be God but I'm actually not. I'm just his son just like you're his son." That makes no sense for Jesus to clearly claim to be God because the Son of Man in that OT passages accepts worship. Something only God can accept. Did Jesus lie to the high priest? Because it is clear that he is claiming to be God there that's why the high priest got so angry and tore his cloths.

Also, if you read Isaiah 6 you will see that the prophet calls Jesus MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Clearly saying that this Baby will be God.

I said
Jesus made it very clear, that He wasn't God when He said the Father is the ONLY true God.

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Jesus backed it up many times like this one. Jesus said He had the very same God and the very same Father that we do.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

 

[jzeidler]

I said

To the Jew that didn't have the Holy Spirit. There are people today that don't have the Holy Spirit that think that Jesus is God. But who's opinion should we go by. The unlearned or the learned.



John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

(NKJ)

So Jesus willingly and knowingly mislead them knowing that they and billions of other people would interpret as him clearly claiming to be God? That would make Jesus the most seditious person in history.