GenO, is a works/deeds kind of guy!
toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
This does not negate or contradict vs. 12. His faithfulness does not preclude the possibility of us becoming faithless. Like every other verse, we need to interpret in context and in light of all relevant verses.
IMJerusha
New member
Now there's some Godly advice! That won't happen, however. Folks turn around and sue. I remember, a big brouhaha some years back about a pastor who chastised a woman for adultery in church from the pulpit. She and the media turned it into a veritable Peyton Place on television. The Church has been neutered and we've done our share to assist in that. Heaven forbid we should live by God's Word. A similar thing happened in one of my old churches when a high school girl in our congregation got pregnant, had her baby at home in the toilet, put it in the trash can and walked away from it. Born alive and healthy according to the coroner, it was found dead many many hours later at a trash collection center. Our pastor chastised the girl from the pulpit and the parents who claimed not to know she was pregnant and reaped a whirlwind of criticism from many in his own congregation. In my opinion, she should have been cast out rather than receive a tongue lashing. At least the court stood firm. She got 15 to life. Then a politician cut her loose after only 8 years served. Hmm....
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glorydaz
Well-known member
That's like blaming the Promises of God for people thinking those promises apply to them. The fact that people don't understand what must be done in order to be saved doesn't change the fact that one is saved by grace through faith. Just because you think no one is saved until the Lord returns and judges doesn't mean I'm not saved right NOW. So, blaming OSAS for the misunderstanding of men is just plain dumb.
Do you think PROMISE means "chance" or something "might not happen?" Men may go back on their promises, but you certainly should be able to trust that God will keep His.
You don't know when we are born again we have been created as new creatures IN CHRIST JESUS?
1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
None of those verses have a thing to do with our losing our eternal salvation.
Excellent post Glory. I'm afraid the, G-man would rather depend on his own works though!
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Americans...I LOVE Americans but you won't like what I will say to you.
Americans have a morality brainwashed into them, a sense of what is right and wrong. It is instilled into them from the earliest age. It is a legalistic morality and when it is outraged it behaves in exactly the same way as any other instilled code of conduct....it has more to do with taboo than righteousness.
I am taking a liberty in saying this but I say in love, when Paul spoke about bringing folk to shame in the assembly, they were not people who have made a mess...dammit you have people like Swaggart by the hundreds and thousands in America...they get away with it all, they've got money and position. Moralistic politicians the same. But a highschool girl gets the double clobber....you cain't see it, I know you can't.
Now I said I LOVE you Americans and I do...well I do. America is the last bastion of freedom.
This is deep stuff but I think it will go by you.....it is this sense of morality, the legalistic right and wrongness, the utter dread of being shamed and punished [not usually a one/off shaming and punishing but likely a lifetime] that drives people like that young girl to do such desperate things.
And young people in America do actually mature a shade later than their European counterparts.
I will bet my last penny that girl when she served 8 years came out and rebuilded her shattered life, do you know how I have confidence to say that? because I know my God...He is the God of broken hearts and broken lives.
A Potter saw a vessel
that had been broken by the winds and the rain
and He saw with so much compassion
that He made it over again.
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If you are living by your faith William you have got it wrong, we live by the faith of the Son of God...our faith may fail, in fact it is sure to, but His faith never. He cannot deny Himself.
He knew what He was doing when He saved us.
Amen!
Using this logic, His faith saves us, so He can give His faith to everyone and all will be saved. Faith is portrayed as a manward response. Apart from KJV, most texts talk about our faith in Christ, not His faith on our behalf.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, the KJV has it right for there are two faiths...ours in Him and His which gives us LIFE. We are accounted righteousness by our faith and we live by His faith. From faith to faith....
Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
We see both here....faith of Christ unto all and upon all them that believe (have faith in Christ.)
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Here we see both the faith of Christ and the faith of those who believe (have faith). It would be redundant for Paul to say what he does here if it were just a question of our faith in Christ.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I can almost guarantee our faith will fail....will grow weak....will come under extreme duress, but His never fails which is why we can have full assurance of salvation.
He is the Good Shepherd in whom we trust. God used the perfect example when He called us His sheep. Sheep have no defenses. They must rely totally on the shepherd to pull them out of any pit, to lead and guide them, to keep away the wolves. The sheep won't boast it was by their endurance that they arrived in the home pasture. They will know, without a doubt, they were KEPT safe from all harm.
Once a person is circumcised of heart, they can no more uncircumcise it than a man could uncircumcise his own flesh if he had had that done physically.
AMEN
This goes to the crux of the freegrace/freewill argument as I am sure you know...Jesus explains it perfectly [and simply] but you don't like to hear it.
My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and I lead them in and out into pasture.....you [His opponents] do not understand because ye are of your father the devil and his desires ye will do. There it is two groups and sorts, sheep and goats, wheat and tares.
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He willeth IN US to do of His good pleasure, it is all according to a LIFE granted to us when we are born again and this life IS Christ.
You know that I think human flesh stinks William yours and mine both, and that includes the mind of the flesh [what you call freewill] it is as proud as the devil itself.
Somehow this truth escapes you...we belong to God, we ARE His property. He does not have to come and curtsy to us and ask "please may I, if it is not too inconvenient for you?"
We are created for Christ, our hearts are created as a dwelling place for the Spirit of God.
Yes amen, God Himself will shake it....this [to me] explains why so many christians have such a torrid time....all the time God is trying to bring them up higher to more solid ground.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Exactly. Growth takes place in the valley. Recognizing that we are His workmanship...that He is actively conforming us into His image means we will know the fellowship of His suffering.
Romans 5:3-4
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Philippians 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
glorydaz
Well-known member
Don't blame it on freewill, Totton. We must stop resisting and freely come...look, eat of the bread of life and drink from the waters of salvation. Then we become His workmanship...only when we have stopped resisting can He begin His work in us.
You can't give a gift to someone who won't accept it.
That's why you haven't received His grace: you deny and refuse it.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Exactly, and it isn't a gift if you have to earn it.
I do not deny and refuse his grace. Give me a reason for your retarded accusation.
I received the free gift of eternal life by grace through faith in 1978. I was transformed as I was transferred from darkness to light.
Rom. 10:9-10 applies to me, not just you. Jn. 1:12 is a true promise even though it is not MAD Paul. Jn. 3:16 is as simple as it gets, but you twist and complicate it.
I do not deny His saving and keeping grace and power, but I do not make the Calvinistic mistake of saying it is irresistible, because I am a free will theist, not a determinist. I know the King/kingdom rules with love, freedom, relationship, responsibility, not causation/coercion like inanimate creation. So, I am consistent to reject universalism and OSAS, like many many godly evangelicals who are not Reformed/Calvinistic (POTS) or the cults and some compromised Christians who teach more inclusivistic views.
Honestly, why do people dabble in theology when they don't understand the doctrinal disputes that divide us?
:hammer: