toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

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Grosnick Marowbe

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It boils down to this; most on this thread believe in a "works based religion" on the other hand, a very few (perhaps only two) believe that Christs shed blood and resurrection took away ALL their sins, and they have been placed into the body of Christ, by the work of the Holy Spirit, and cannot lose their standing before God!
Why you may ask? Because, Christ is in us and we are in Christ!!
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Stan says;
Of course it would GM. You either see the truth in them or you don't. How am I or anyone supposed to know if you don't SAY?

GM says;
Are you convinced that you'll spend eternity with God, or do you believe, that you must, stay the course, in order to gain eternal life?
 
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genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
It boils down to this; most on this thread believe in a "works based religion" on the other hand, a very few (perhaps only two) believe that Christs shed blood and resurrection took away ALL their sins, and they have been placed into the body of Christ, by the work of the Holy Spirit, and cannot lose their standing before God!
Why you may ask? Because, Christ is in us and we are in Christ!!
Click to expand...

It really boils down to this: Some people cannot tell the difference between conversion and salvation. Because of that, they refuse to listen to those that can.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
IMJerusha said:
Then that would be the case of every theologian who commented on the writing. Every one of them claims the writing to be to Hebrew Christans, believers in Yeshua, not unbelieving Jews. Every Biblical translation with an introduction to the writing states the same thing. Is the only way that you or others can accept the faith is to warp and twist the reality found in Scripture?
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Yes, Little Miss Know It All, and everyone who attends your church is saved, too, right? :chuckle:

I already gave you this verse, but you choose to ignore it and go on one of your little rants. Please pay attention to what is posted, or you end up making statements like you have here.

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Any of your commentators can understand what it means to NEGLECT so great a salvation. Not LOSE a salvation they have, but to fail to embrace it. Use your noggin and read what's written. :chuckle:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
How shall we escape - How shall we escape the just recompense due to transgressors? What way is there of being saved from punishment, if we suffer the great salvation to be neglected, and do not embrace its offers? The sense is, that there is no other way of salvation, and the neglect of this will be followed by certain destruction. why it will, the apostle proceeds to show, by stating that this plan of salvation was proclaimed first by the Lord himself, and had been confirmed by the most decided and amazing miracles.
If we neglect - It is not merely if we commit great sins. Not, if we are murderers, adulterers, thieves, infidels, atheists, scoffers. It is, if we merely "neglect" this salvation - if we do not embrace it - if we suffer it to pass unimproved. "Neglect" is enough to ruin a man.

http://biblecommenter.com/hebrews/2-3.htm
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So, here is a little sampling, which shows you don't have a clue what you're talking about. At least google the above verse and then read the commentary on that. It's actually not that difficult and you should be able to do it on your own, but......

Although addressed to Hebrews who may have been considering Jesus or Hebrew Christians who were "homesick" for Judaism, this book speaks to everyone who is wondering why they should follow Christ. It transcends its ancient audience and gives answers to the seekers of today.

http://christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentbooks/a/Book-Of-Hebrews.htm


There are too many sections in Hebrews that tell me the book is written to unbelieving Jews not believing Jews. Why does the book begin describing the deity of Christ if the book is written to believing Jews?

http://scofieldministries.blogspot.com/2012/03/to-whom-is-book-of-hebrews-written.html


A. The Jewish Christians are encouraged to leave the synagogue and identify publicly (fully) with the
church (cf. Heb. 13:13).
B. The Jewish Christians are encouraged to take up the missionary mandate of the gospel (cf. Matt.
28:19-20; Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8).
C. The Jewish unbelievers in fellowship with these Jewish Christians are the focus of chapters 6 and
10. Notice the presence of three groups, "we," "you," and "they." They are warned to personally
respond to the abundant and clear evidence in the lives of their Christian friends and co-worshipers.
D. This supposed historical reconstruction is taken from No Easy Salvation by R. C. Glaze, Jr.
"The problem was not that of tension between the Christian majority and the non-Christian minority.
The very opposite was true. The Jewish Christians of this congregation had so compromised their
faith and sense of stewardship that the two groups could worship together as one congregation.
Neither group seriously troubled the conscience of the other. No longer did the preaching of the
Christian group result in conviction and decision on the part of the unsaved members of the
synagogue. The Christians were in a state of stagnation because of their unwillingness to accept the
full demands of courageous Christian living. The unbelievers had become hardened by continual
rejection to the point of utter indifference. These groups had now become compatible bedfellows.
The reluctance of the Christian group to 'press on unto perfection' (6:1) was motivated by two
phenomena: high regard for the traditions of Judaism and unwillingness to pay the price of full
identification with Christianity, which was becoming more and more a Gentile movement" (p. 23).

http://www.ibiblio.org/freebiblecommentary/pdf/EN/VOL10.pdf
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In reality, if you would actually read the Scripture instead of relying on your understanding of what the commentators are saying, you'd be able to see Hebrews is showing the distinction between the Jewish faith and the Christian faith. The audience plainly includes both.
 
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godrulz

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
The truth of OSAS is in the Scriptures. However, you totally deny
that truth!
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The truth of Scripture is the security of the believer and possibility of apostasy/falling away. Therefore, the biblical view is conditional vs unconditional eternal security.

You can say that the truth of deterministic Calvinism is POTS/OSAS, but not the truth of Scripture. Don't elevate your opinions and errors on par with sound exegesis/theology if they are not.
 
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godrulz

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
StanJ53 said:
Then why are we warned to stay the course?
Why are we warned to not shrink back?
Why are we warned to make sure we produce good fruit?
None of this would be required IF OSAS was a reality.


Stan, it looks as if you are one of those who trust in Christ AND
yourself! That's what's behind your rationale in the end analysis!
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Using your logic, faith in Christ is then trusting in oneself? Your logic is Calvinistic, not biblical.
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godrulz

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
There's NO judgement awaiting the true believer, only the gain or
loss of rewards! Once one is, In Christ, they cannot lose what God
has made provision for!
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You are correct about believers, but this does not preclude the possibility of becoming apostate. Then, the truths about believers no longer apply to the individual, just the truths for unbelievers (because that is what they are, but not what they were).
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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glorydaz said:
Yes, Little Miss Know It All, and everyone who attends your church is saved, too, right? :chuckle:

I already gave you this verse, but you choose to ignore it and go on one of your little rants. Please pay attention to what is posted, or you end up making statements like you have here.

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Any of your commentators can understand what it means to NEGLECT so great a salvation. Not LOSE a salvation they have, but to fail to embrace it. Use your noggin and read what's written. :chuckle:



So, here is a little sampling, which shows you don't have a clue what you're talking about. At least google the above verse and then read the commentary on that. It's actually not that difficult and you should be able to do it on your own, but......



In reality, if you would actually read the Scripture instead of relying on your understanding of what the commentators are saying, you'd be able to see Hebrews is showing the distinction between the Jewish faith and the Christian faith. The audience plainly includes both.
Click to expand...

Good post. It's always good to hear from the sane, for a change!
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Good post. It's always good to hear from the sane, for a change!
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Thanks, GM. I'm always amazed how people think everyone is saved in every letter to the churches just because it's written in the Bible.... and so everything stated therein must apply to the saved. When Paul addresses the letter to the church in Corinth, for example. Or 1 John....Jason thinks even those in darkness are saved and need to move back into the light. No wonder there's so much confusion around here. :chuckle:
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
godrulz said:
You are correct about believers, but this does not preclude the possibility of becoming apostate. Then, the truths about believers no longer apply to the individual, just the truths for unbelievers (because that is what they are, but not what they were).
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The Jews were apostate when they neglected so great a salvation. For some reason, you think a born again believer can be an apostate which shows you are failing to see who, exactly, is being spoken of in any given verse. Remember, the Jews were God's chosen people. When the Gospel was preached to them, many failed to ENTER IN to the faith. Therefore, their rejection of the Messiah made them turn their back on the one true God.
 
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