toldailytopic: Judging

[Cracked]

We should not be judging non-Christians. We are, however, responsible for judging within the church.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 Cor 5:12-13

Exactly. In the church; some day out of the church, but that time is not yet.

However, we must also know that how we judge others directly impacts how we will be judged. Judge scornfully and without mercy, as many do on this very website, and you will be judged the same.

 

[Rusha]

No. It's about helping and protecting them and society.

Unless you are speaking of violent criminals, what exactly would you be protecting them and society from?

What pleasure is there in judging for a person who is forced to judge?

For some people, I think there is TONS of pleasure in judging others. BTW, no one is forced to judge anyone ... that is a conscientious decision that every individual chooses to make.

 

[elohiym]

Unless you are speaking of violent criminals, what exactly would you be protecting them and society from?

From the consequences of objectively immoral acts.

Abortion comes to mind, for example. We should judge abortion as murder, and those who do it as murderers. We should rebuke the murderers and condemn their behavior so others will know it's murder, too. Doing so can prevent women from choosing abortion, and can save the lives of unborn children.

For some people, I think there is TONS of pleasure in judging others.

Are you judging them?

BTW, no one is forced to judge anyone ... that is a conscientious decision that every individual chooses to make.

I am forced to judge abortion as murder because unfortunately people are murdering unborn children everyday. The conscientious decision I make is part of the judgment process.

 

[Rusha]

From the consequences of objectively immoral acts.

Abortion comes to mind, for example. We should judge abortion as murder, and those who do it as murderers. We should rebuke the murderers and condemn their behavior so others will know it's murder, too. Doing so can prevent women from choosing abortion, and can save the lives of unborn children.

Being that abortion takes the life of another innocent human being, it makes perfect sense to judge it as evil.

Are you judging them?

Nope ... observing, dismissing and stating the obvious.

I am forced to judge abortion as murder because unfortunately people are murdering unborn children everyday. The conscientious decision I make is part of the judgment process.

I wasn't even questioning the wisdom of judging abortion ... it's evil because it takes the life of unborn children.

 

[elohiym]

Being that abortion takes the life of another innocent human being, it makes perfect sense to judge it as evil.

Okay. How about this? Should I have judged? Why or why not?

 

[csuguy]

Judge and discern are synonyms. Judge and punish are not. You are trying to change the debate.

Discern is only synonymous with one connotation of judge - not both. Here are some scriptures were the word judge is clearly used under the connotation of punishment for sin -

For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. Acts 17:31

if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 2 Peter 2:9

But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. Romans 2:5

 

[Cracked]

The thing is - it is impossible from going around and judging in the broad sense of the term. However, we are simply not equipped to judge the quality of a person's spirit - and that is what I object to and what I think Scripture warns us against.

 

[Rusha]

Okay. How about this? Should I have judged? Why or why not?

IF you feel it was plagiarism, then why would I argue the merits of reporting it?

 

[csuguy]

Obviously you have no problem judging people.

Need an integrity check?

I have no problem discerning the truth, judging what the truth is - but I do not, or at least try not to, judge people for their sins. These are two clearly distinct things - apparent to anyone who has the ability to discern truth.

 

[elohiym]

IF you feel it was plagiarism, then why would I argue the merits of reporting it?

Remember your initial question? My answer:

It's about helping and protecting them and society.

You responded:

Unless you are speaking of violent criminals, what exactly would you be protecting them and society from?

I just gave you a non-violent example. Plagiarism.

Can you see how judgment was necessary in that situation, and why I had to rebuke Herald publicly?

 

[csuguy]

This debate has become nonsensical.

You no longer deny that we (everyone) ARE to judge, but just what efforts should be made to "stop" someone from what we have "discerned" is evil behavior.

I have not changed my position at all - and if you think so then you clearly never understood my position.

 

[elohiym]

...we are simply not equipped to judge the quality of a person's spirit ...

You can't judge the quality of a child molester's spirit? :squint:

 

[csuguy]

And here is the death blow to the judge not crowd:

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Context. A neighbor at the time when the commandment in leviticus 19:15 was given would be another Jew, or an alien living in a Jewish nation. I Cor 5 is more appropriate in today's context.

 

[Cracked]

You can't judge the quality of a child molester's spirit? :squint:

No you can't. God can.

 

[minuteman]

I have no problem discerning the truth, judging what the truth is - but I do not, or at least try not to, judge people for their sins. These are two clearly distinct things - apparent to anyone who has the ability to discern truth.

So you discern whether an action is good or bad, but you don't make a judgment as to whether the actor is good or bad? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Rusha]

I just gave you a non-violent example. Plagiarism.

Can you see how judgment was necessary in that situation, and why I had to rebuke Herald publicly?

I don't have a problem with you mentioning it to him, however, I am not sure that it couldn't have been handled privately prior to reporting it.

As far as being non-violent, I would agree that plagiarism is always wrong in the same way that stealing is always wrong. Bad acts don't always equate to being violent.

 

[csuguy]

So you discern whether an action is good or bad, but you don't make a judgment as to whether the actor is good or bad? Is that what you are saying?

I am saying that I don't punish people for their sins, its not my place. There are two connotations that 'judge' can mean given different contexts: 1) discernment, 2) justice [aka punishment for sin]

 

[elohiym]

I don't have a problem with you mentioning it to him, however, I am not sure that it couldn't have been handled privately prior to reporting it.

Read his response on the thread and you will know why it couldn't have been handled privately. :chuckle:

But that's beside the point. Someone would have had to judge that as plagiarism or let plagiarism go unchecked on TOL. I was the first one to see it and judge him.

As far as being non-violent, I would agree that plagiarism is always wrong in the same way that stealing is always wrong. Bad acts don't always equate to being violent.

Then since we agree on that, I hope my original answer to your original question, having been clarified, satisfied your curiosity.

 

[elohiym]

I am saying that I don't punish people for their sins, its not my place. There are two connotations that 'judge' can mean given different contexts...

Okay. I guess we all misunderstood you. Let's just drop it.

We can just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[csuguy]

We can just agree to disagree and move on.

Fair enough