toldailytopic: Judging

[csuguy]

So the Pharisees weren't sinners?

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17

 

[chickenman]

There is no "THIS WAY" in scripture - you are adding to it to. Exegesis vs eisegeses.

There's also no "kick them out of your fellowship", another phrase I used. Why did you not call me out on that phrase?

The context is obvious. Do what you like with it.

And I've not said that you are wrong in your position on judging (though I believe you are). I was simply saying that this passage cannot be used to support it.

 

[csuguy]

Word games. You are judging that someone is violating a moral code when you discern he is molesting a child.

I'm sorry if your ability to differentiate different connotations of words is lacking. Discerning right and wrong is not the same as judging someone for doing something wrong.

Judging and sentencing are not synonyms. We're not discussing sentencing, but judging. Nevertheless, it is incumbent on citizens and Christians to intervene to protect the innocent based on their judgment.

Sentencing is used to DEFINE judging.

 

[Rusha]

I think you misunderstand the nature of sin. Most sin is NOT malicious.

That's because we are viewing this from two different perspectives. I am speaking of acts that are criminal or should *be* criminal based on the fact that they harm other innocent, non consenting human beings.

Because sin is a religious concept, I do not view any act as being sinful.

 

[csuguy]

There's also no "kick them out of your fellowship", another phrase I used. Why did you not call me out on that phrase?

The context is obvious. Do what you like with it.

And I've not said that you are wrong in your position on judging (though I believe you are). I was simply saying that this passage cannot be used to support it.

Yes - you were saying I was wrong, even if it was not explicitly stated before now. You are adding words to scripture to make it fit a preconceived view, you are not deriving your view from this scripture. You are trying to morph this chapter to fit your view - that's all there is too it.

 

[chickenman]

Yes - you were saying I was wrong, even if it was not explicitly stated before now. You are adding words to scripture to make it fit a preconceived view, you are not deriving your view from this scripture. You are trying to morph this chapter to fit your view - that's all there is too it.

Ummm...no. I quoted, word-for-word, the text. THEN, I offered my explanation. If that's "adding words to scripture", then aren't literally every single one of your posts on the topic "adding words to scripture", since you've been trying to explain to us what you believe it means?

No need to make silly statements like that, csu. Just relax and discuss the text.

 

[Sozo again]

csuguy...

How are you going to do this?

"Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision" Phil 3:2

 

[Ecumenicist]

God's judgement is God's act of healing Grace, not condemnation. We are called not to judge for the purpose of condemnation, rather we are called to discern for the purpose of bringing about healing.

A child molester needs to be taken off the streets not for the sake of condemnation, but for the protection of both children and the molester, and for the purpose of rehabilitation, just like any addict.

 

[chickenman]

Many Christians stop reading at Matthew 7:1, they should continue reading so they can see that Jesus is showing us HOW TO judge, not telling people they shouldn't judge.

It's like judging for dummies!

Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 “And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Here is the instruction summarized...

1. Don't be a hypocrite. (Make sure you are not engaging in the same activity that you are judging.)

2. Judge.

Looks pretty simple to me.

That Jesus was so judgmental, calling people hypocrites and all.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

That Jesus was so judgmental, calling people hypocrites and all.

Yeah, no doubt.

He wouldn't have "fit in" in today's church.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

csuguy...

How are you going to do this?

"Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision" Phil 3:2

Truth, meet smack!

Great post. :up:

 

[elohiym]

I like how you all have stopped referring to scripture - because it doesn't agree with you.

What scripture doesn't agree with me? :idunno:

According to the whole of scripture we are to judge rightly, careful to use the correct standard for judging. That is why Jesus said, "with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Judgments are based on standards, as they were in Jesus' day; if you are using the wrong standard, you cannot judge rightly. In Jesus' day, the Jews were monkeying around with the standard and perverting it with doctrines of men, hence his admonition for them to not judge by that standard.

 

[elohiym]

csuguy...

How are you going to do this?

"Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision" Phil 3:2

Or this...

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Ecumenicist]

That Jesus was so judgmental, calling people hypocrites and all.

Not just people, but Pharisees and Pundits, the religious right wing (and radio hosts) of the time.

Knight's right, Jesus wouldn't fit in because there's little (if any) self directed criticism in the right wing church of today. They think "saved" is a free ticket to condemning others.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Or this...

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Speaking of fruits, I don't believe I've ever met a loving, kind, and gentle right wing zealot...

 

[Sozo again]

Speaking of fruits, I don't believe I've ever met a loving, kind, and gentle right wing zealot...

Sometimes, judgments are clouded by a simple distortion of words like "love".

 

[csuguy]

Ummm...no. I quoted, word-for-word, the text. THEN, I offered my explanation. If that's "adding words to scripture", then aren't literally every single one of your posts on the topic "adding words to scripture", since you've been trying to explain to us what you believe it means?

No need to make silly statements like that, csu. Just relax and discuss the text.

You were underlining and emphasizing "in this way" as if it were part of the scriptures in question - its not. The text simply says not to judge those outside the church - it is not our place. It does NOT say 'do not judge them "in this way" but judge them in other ways.' Your trying to make the scripture fit with your view point rather than derive your view point from scripture.

 

[csuguy]

csuguy...

How are you going to do this?

"Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision" Phil 3:2

Discerning the truth and judging people for their sins are two different things - I've already gone over this.

 

[csuguy]

God's judgement is God's act of healing Grace, not condemnation. We are called not to judge for the purpose of condemnation, rather we are called to discern for the purpose of bringing about healing.

A child molester needs to be taken off the streets not for the sake of condemnation, but for the protection of both children and the molester, and for the purpose of rehabilitation, just like any addict.

:thumb:

 

[Sozo again]

Discerning the truth and judging people for their sins are two different things - I've already gone over this.

What do you mean by "judging people for their sins"?