toldailytopic: Do you believe professional athletes are overpaid?

[The Berean]

I'm a free-market guy all the way but I have some socialist in me.
I'm a huge sports fan, and movie buff, and music fan.
Athletes are over-paid, movie stars are overpaid. The Yankees drop half a billion last year to sign 3 players, Jack Nicholson makes 61 million playing The Joker? While many poor, under-fed people out there need help and many hard-working family folks are out of work.
There's just something wrong with the picture of modern-America...

I see what your saying. And on a certain level it kind of makes sense. Except I see one problem with this. How is reducing an athlete's pay going to put more money into the poor, under-fed people out there needing help and the many hard-working family folks who are out of work? :idunno:

 

[WandererInFog]

The NFL didn't force the AFL to merge. It couldn't. By 1966 the AFL was basically on par with the NFL.

Of course if professional sports were held to the same rules as other other business, the merger would've been illegal....

 

[Jefferson]

And they have to be protected by law from corporate thugs with baseball bats and shotguns. Any means necessary to protect profits.

That's not socialism. That's simply the government upholding the law. When a government protects a convenience store by apprehending a robber who stole from them, do you call that socialism just because the government got involved?

Secondly, you forgot to mention the union thugs with baseball bats who threaten people who believe in the right to work when the union is on strike. Crossing a picket line is also the free market at work. And when the police prevent the union thugs from using baseball bats on the people crossing the line, that doesn't automatically turn it into socialism. It's simply the government upholding the free market system at work.

 

[The Berean]

Of course if professional sports were held to the same rules as other other business, the merger would've been illegal....

Yes, I know. The merger required an act by Congress to let it happen legally. But let's be honest here. Pro sports leagues are not like the typical business. The AFL-NFL merger is not like Boeing trying to merge with Lockheed Martin for instance. the main purpose for pro sports leagues are entrainment. That is not the main purpose for companies like Boeing or Lockheed Martin.

 

[WandererInFog]

Yes, I know. The merger required an act by Congress to let it happen legally. But let's be honest here. Pro sports leagues are not like the typical business. The AFL-NFL merger is not like Boeing trying to merge with Lockheed Martin for instance. the main purpose for pro sports leagues are entrainment. That is not the main purpose for companies like Boeing or Lockheed Martin.

Whether they're involved in aerospace, entertainment, or weaving baskets, the main purpose of any corporation is to maximize profits to the benefit of its stakeholders. If we, as a society, have concluded that allowing monopolies artificially raises prices, constricts supply, and otherwise damages the consumer (which is the essence of anti-trust legislation), I see no compelling reason why professional sports should be exempt from this, and more specifically germane to this thread, that so long as they maintain such an exemption that the salaries they're able to pay can be defended on the basis of them simply being what the marketed has dictated.

 

[The Berean]

Whether they're involved in aerospace, entertainment, or weaving baskets, the main purpose of any corporation is to maximize profits to the benefit of its stakeholders. If we, as a society, have concluded that allowing monopolies artificially raises prices, constricts supply, and otherwise damages the consumer (which is the essence of anti-trust legislation), I see no compelling reason why professional sports should be exempt from this, and more specifically germane to this thread, that so long as they maintain such an exemption that the salaries they're able to pay can be defended on the basis of them simply being what the marketed has dictated.

First of all only baseball has an anti-trust exemption, the NFL and NBA do not. Besides what does the anti-trust exemption really have to do with the high salary of professional athletes today?

 

[Ecumenicist]

First of all only baseball has an anti-trust exemption, the NFL and NBA do not. Besides what does the anti-trust exemption really have to do with the high salary of professional athletes today?

Let me break it down for you:

1. NFL controls salaries
2. AFL creates competition
3. NFL eliminates competition by merging with AFL
4. NFL still controls salaries
5. Unions start to make noise, have strikes
6. NFL releases salary control and
7. Marketplace forces start dictating salaries.

Similar stories in other sports.

 

[Son of Jack]

Here's some food for thought on this thread...

Food for Thought

My problem isn't necessarily with Jack, who ties his shoes, but with the Bulls players, who watch him do it...:rain:

 

[kmoney]

:chuckle: I've never seen that one before.

 

[Four O'Clock]

Ok? And? The NFL didn't force the AFL to merge. It couldn't. By 1966 the AFL was basically on par with the NFL.

Actually they weren't (totally) until, circa 73-74?....

 

[chrysostom]

I think Tiger has proved it

 

[Four O'Clock]

I see what your saying. And on a certain level it kind of makes sense. Except I see one problem with this. How is reducing an athlete's pay going to put more money into the poor, under-fed people out there needing help and the many hard-working family folks who are out of work? :idunno:

I know, I'm dreaming. :dunce:
Ideally? Let every athlete, actor, musician, businessman, etc...get their contract and set a cap at say two-three million (yearly) or 'therabouts' (as a Christian, isn't that more than enough to live comfortably especially with multiyear deals for most of them?) The exact amount could be worked out depending on the longevity of your 'deal'. Also, those millionaires that are the real go-getters/job creators with heart who seek to create new wealth/jobs would be given leeway.
Ideally? Anything over that goes into a pot to be redistributed to those in need? Not lazy slaggards but those who truely need help.

Problems? Whoever's in charge (politics) would be pulling the strings and that's the big problem.

Result? Billions of dollars to the needy in our country, and, with a bit of trickle-down, those in need around the world.

I know this upsets the 'American' applecart, so to speak, but the 21st century is a new age, global economy, etc....

Gee, I guess I am a socialist....

Note: How can anyone here on TOL, who professes to be a Christian, defend mega-millionaires who live 'high-rise' and give nothing back to those in need? (There are those that do give back and are to be commended and I use them in my arguments with my extreme left-wing friends)

Marxism? Horse-poo!!!! Tried, done, failed!!!

But....common sense?

I repeat, I'm a dreaming dope...

 

[The Berean]

Let me break it down for you:

1. NFL controls salaries
2. AFL creates competition
3. NFL eliminates competition by merging with AFL
4. NFL still controls salaries
5. Unions start to make noise, have strikes
6. NFL releases salary control and
7. Marketplace forces start dictating salaries.

Similar stories in other sports.

Ok, but what does this have to do with anti-trust exemptions? MLB has an anti-trust exemption and the NFL and NBA do not. Yet athletes in all three leagues earn huge salaries. As for #7 marketplace forces do not dictate salaries. The NFL has a salary cap and very limited free agency which limits salaries. And the players agreed to the salary cap and limited free agency.

 

[The Berean]

Actually they weren't (totally) until, circa 73-74?....

Huh? The AFL Jets beat the NFL Colts in Super Bowl III in 1969. The AFL Chiefs beat the NFL Vikings in Super Bowl IV in 1970.

 

[The Berean]

I know, I'm dreaming. :dunce:
Ideally? Let every athlete, actor, musician, businessman, etc...get their contract and set a cap at say two-three million (yearly) or 'therabouts' (as a Christian, isn't that more than enough to live comfortably especially with multiyear deals for most of them?) The exact amount could be worked out depending on the longevity of your 'deal'. Also, those millionaires that are the real go-getters/job creators with heart who seek to create new wealth/jobs would be given leeway.
Ideally? Anything over that goes into a pot to be redistributed to those in need? Not lazy slaggards but those who truely need help.

Problems? Whoever's in charge (politics) would be pulling the strings and that's the big problem.

Result? Billions of dollars to the needy in our country, and, with a bit of trickle-down, those in need around the world.

I know this upsets the 'American' applecart, so to speak, but the 21st century is a new age, global economy, etc....

Gee, I guess I am a socialist....

I'm not sure how this system would put more money into the poor and underfed? The reason pro athletes can make huge salaries are because:

1) Cable TV contracts
2) Local TV contracts
3) Ticket sales
4) Sports paraphernalia (jerseys, shirts, hats, mugs posters, video games, etc).
5) Product Endorsements

If you were to artificially limit an athlete's salary all that would do is lower the amount of money that cable TV networks would need to pay for TV contracts, lower the amount of money fans would need to pay for tickets and sports paraphernalia, and lower the amount of money that a company would have to pay an athelte to endorse their product. So if ESPN had to pay $10 million instead of $100 million for NFL broadcast rights that extra $90 million saved wouldn't go to the poor and underfed. See what I'm getting at? :idunno:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Anyone consider that professional athletes are not overpaid?
I think the pay is right but the athletes are underskilled and underworked.

 

[Four O'Clock]

Huh? The AFL Jets beat the NFL Colts in Super Bowl III in 1969. The AFL Chiefs beat the NFL Vikings in Super Bowl IV in 1970.

One game. I'd give the Colts & the Vikings the nod on a best of three series...IMHO they were the best team in each matchup.
I'm talking THE COMPLETE LEAGUE.

Not to mention the AFL (NFL?) Colts beat the Cowboys in Jan 71.
After the Browns/Steelers/Colts had to go to the AFC...

Even to this day, if you take Colt/Steeler Super bowl victories as NFC, what's the tally?

I know, I'm engaging in a stupid argument...:bang:

And don't get me started on the 72 Dolphins being the best team of all-time. Any number of powerhouse squads would have waxed their butt!!!

 

[Ktoyou]

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Maybe they are overpaid, but once underpaid, they were prone to corruption. I think it is far more true that actors are overpaid, what can actors do if paid less? Fake a bad performance? Quit acting and get a real job? Come on, actors are way overpaid because they would do what they enjoy for far less money. Sports stars could fall privy to gamblers. How could actors do this? When is the last time you knew of anyone who betted on a movie?

 

[The Berean]

Maybe they are overpaid, but once underpaid, they were prone to corruption. I think it is far more true that actors are overpaid, what can actors do if paid less? Fake a bad performance? Quit acting and get a real job? Come on, actors are way overpaid because they would do what they enjoy for far less money. Sports stars could fall privy to gamblers. How could actors do this? When is the last time you knew of anyone who betted on a movie?

That was very true in the early part of the 20th century (see Black Sox Scandal of 1919). But today pro athletes make so much more money. What could a gambler offer an athlete that already earns $15 million per season?

 

[Ktoyou]

I was thinking about the 'black Sox', it seems to me that old man Comiskey cheated the pitcher, Red Faber out of his bonus and being such a tightwad, he deserved who he got but not the eight men out.