toldailytopic: At what point does drinking alcohol become sinful?

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bybee

New member
PureX said:
That is the nature of the addiction. The more obsessed the alcoholic becomes with being drunk, the more he will push away everything else in his life to get it. And his mind becomes practiced at seeking out and inventing excuses and justifications for getting drunk, so that he often blames everyone and everything around him as the cause and justification of that endless desire to be drunk. How else can he explain it to himself?

For an alcoholic, everything becomes an excuse to get drunk. Got a flat tire? That means 'God hates me, and I may as well go to the bar and just get stinking drunk!' This is the insanity of alcoholism: the solution to a flat tire is to get drunk, not to actually fix the tire.

Got fired from work for being drunk on the job? I could drink over something like that for months, when I was drinking! And all the while I would blame it on the boss, and on the world, and on God, and on everything and anything and anyone, rational or not. Because the goal was always the same - to work up and excuse to get drunk. That's what alcoholism is: an endless need to be drunk.
I think your memories are skewed. I think people are more likely now days to call someone out for being drunk on the job than they were in times past. Including doctors and nurses. Back in the 'old days', alcoholics were tolerated on the job far more than they are, now, because there were far fewer law suits and because squeezing every penny out of productivity was not such a national obsession.
That's the kind of thinking that alcoholics engage in. They would come across a single incident, that they don't really know anything about, and blow it up in their minds to be endemic of the whole world gone to hell, or out to get them, personally, and then use it as an excuse to drink for years. But in reality, it's just one story among millions, and it's not even the whole story. It actually represents nothing but what you want it to represent.
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I am giving you an A+ for finding ways to demean and deconstruct what others have to say with which you take issue.
Yet, your own litany is relentless and offered for admiration.
Okay, you are a wonderful, intelligent and informed human being.
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
Lighthouse said:
Which has nothing to do with the conversation I'm having with IMJerusha, or any other conversation I'm having in this thread, except for this one, now.
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You were having a conversation with me? I'm so flattered! :)
I can appreciate Noguru's input as well.
I think you're both swell! :D
 
tudorturtl

tudorturtl

New member
PureX said:
Except that by definition, addiction means that we have lost the power of choice. I know this is impossible for people who have not experienced addiction to understand, but being addicted means being unable to stop, even when you want to.

Also, it's important to understand that one of the most imposing characteristics of an addiction is a blind obsession with the substance we're addicted to. Alcoholics, for example, simply cannot comprehend alcohol or it's effects, reasonably. So that their "choices" become the choices of a person who is not capable of thinking reasonably about their own behavior.
Of course. YOU can see that, and so can everyone around the alcoholic who is not also alcoholic, but the alcoholic himself will either simply not see them, or they will not register in his mind as a real consequence. Believe me, I have been there many, many times. And it's inexplicable how the mind simply erases all cognizance of reason and proportion when it comes to the consequences of getting drunk, when you're alcoholic. To an alcoholic, getting drunk is far more than a desire that he can reasonably turn down. It's a blinding obsession that owns him, and will destroy him and everything he loves. It's like living in a nightmare where some evil force inside you just takes over.
Alcoholism is not an "excuse", it's an illness. I know it's much more fun and much easier to just blame the addict and then wash your hands of him/her in the resulting righteous indignation that you feel, but the sad truth is that addictions are a form of mental and physical illness that we still have not found a cure for. And it's terminal. It kills millions and millions of human beings every year, while it does untold harm to their families and to those who love them.

It's a very difficult affliction to understand, and even more frustrating to have to deal with, which often causes a lot of anger and resentment. But it is what it is, and blaming and washing our hands isn't going to help anyone. We need to face it for what it is and try and understand how it works, before we can ever hope to find a way through it, to healing.
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but the person was straight when they first walked the road so who is to blame? play with fire? whose fault if you get burned? I understand addiction I smoke 2 packs a day but I don't blame the tobacco companies for selling their product, I blame myself for having been so dumb
 
tudorturtl

tudorturtl

New member
I don't think there is a standard answer for everyone, I don't think that drinking is sinful, but sinful things become more likely to be done by someone with their guard down, and so we are warned against it.
 
noguru

noguru

Well-known member
tudorturtl said:
but the person was straight when they first walked the road so who is to blame? play with fire? whose fault if you get burned?
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It is not about blaming others or society, that is the exact issue an addict/alcoholic has to overcome. Steps 5 through 10 of the 12 steps should lead to the most rigorous self critcism and making amends to others for the harms one has caused. And there is no expectation that any of that should be returned by others or by society.

tudorturtl said:
I understand addiction I smoke 2 packs a day but I don't blame the tobacco companies for selling their product, I blame myself for having been so dumb.
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Tobacco is not highly psychoactice. There is a unique reaction in our brain chemistry and our thinking when the substance is highly psychoactive. And psychoactive substances do not really release anything that is not naturally in the body for the psychoactive effect. They simply become ways to release these naturally occurring chemicals, but with excessive use are like throwing a monkey wrench in the gears. There are natural nuerotransmitters and adrenoline that can be released in our nervous system from other things like eating, sex, gambling, extreme sports like downhill skiing, even certain professions and lifestyles that can produce some of these same addictive behaviors. The brain becomes most comfortable in that state and it invents all kinds of rationalizations to keep the brain in that state.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Knight said:
toldailytopic: At what point does drinking alcohol become sinful?
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To quit beating up bybee and actually answer the OP question; I don't believe 'sin' is defined by an act, but is defined by the spiritual impetus that often results is a 'sinful act'. So I do not believe that drinking alcohol is in itself ever a sin, because the sin originates in the heart and mind of the sinner, not in their actions or in any chemical mixture.

However, as has already been noted by several posters, sin and sinfulness is a progressive condition. The more we engage in sinful thoughts and feelings, the more likely we are to do so again, and again. And as alcohol has the tendency to exacerbate a habit of poor choices, by it's own chemical effect, I believe that drinking can incline one to sinfulness. And this should be kept in mind whenever we choose to partake of it.
 
B

bybee

New member
PureX said:
To quit beating up bybee and actually answer the OP question; I don't believe 'sin' is defined by an act, but is defined by the spiritual impetus that often results is a 'sinful action'. So I do not believe that drinking alcohol is in itself ever a sin, because the sin originates in the heart and mind of the sinner, not in their actions or in the chemical mix.

However, as has already been noted by several of us, sin and sinfulness is a progressive condition. The more we engage in sinful thoughts and feelings, the more likely we are to do so again, and again. And as alcohol has the tendency to exacerbate a habit of poor choices, by it's own chemical effect, I believe that drinking can incline one to sinfulness. And this should be kept in mind whenever we choose to partake of it.
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Alcohol, like guns, is inert until employed.
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
IMJerusha said:
You mean, can I drink three shots of tequila and not hit the floor? It's been a while, but I think I can still manage it! :rotfl:
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:chuckle:

Not exactly what I meant, no.

IMJerusha said:
No, I didn't because Knight's question didn't ask about alcoholism. Anything abused can become addictive; alcohol, cigarettes, drugs.
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Exactly.

IMJerusha said:
You were having a conversation with me? I'm so flattered! :)
I can appreciate Noguru's input as well.
I think you're both swell! :D
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I'm just trying to figure out why he made an irrelevant comment to my question; he didn't even attempt to answer it.
 
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