It gets mind boggling, doesn't it!
Time could not begin with creation because infinity is time.
ECT Time & Anthropomorphism with GOD
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
Time could not begin with creation because infinity is time.
Right Divider
Body part
I would say that infinity is beyond time, but that's just me.
There were events before creation, how does that mean time existed before creation?
Right Divider
Body part
What events before creation?
Time is a measurement, infinity cannot be measured.
Well, I'd love to know but Jesus Christ shared glory with the Father before the world began. Unless sharing glory is not an "event", I was just using the word Stripe used.
John 17:5 KJV - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Time can be segments of infinity and those segments can be measured (day, second, years, or an era such as the medieval times), but time itself is all of infinity.
Infinity doesn't start being time or stop being time, it is all time.
Derf
Well-known member
Is the house of Eli the whole house of Aaron during Samuel's time? I doubt it. And "Eli" is not mentioned back in Exodus. So the inclusion of "the house of Eli" in Aaron's promise is only because Eli and sons are in the seat currently. Thus it seems like God is saying (for our understanding, anyway) that the promise to Aaron of his lineage receiving the priesthood was also passed on to his lineage. Iow, Eli expected his sons to be priests, because he was a priest, and his sons could expect the same treatment for their sons, even though there were other Aaronic descendents around in Eli's time. This is similar to a king's son expecting to be the next king, rather than a king's brother or nephew or distant cousin.
But I don't really see the Aaronic promise broken here, just the part applicable to Eli, which was unstated. Thus the "seemed to contradict".
You're blowin' my mind !!
[Verse 1: David Gilmour & Richard Wright]
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
[Verse 2: David Gilmour & Richard Wright]
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over
Thought I'd something more to say
["Breathe" reprise: David Gilmour]
Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
And when I come home cold and tired
Its good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
https://genius.com/Pink-floyd-time-lyrics
The only aspect of God, which was temporal and physical was Jesus, who was 100% man, but at the same time He was 100% God.
The Father is 100% God and Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit is God regenerating the human soul. WE hear from Jesus the Christ, but when we fully believe in Jesus taking on all sin, we more towards receiving Grace.
The Father is 100% God and Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit is God regenerating the human soul. WE hear from Jesus the Christ, but when we fully believe in Jesus taking on all sin, we more towards receiving Grace.
The beginning and present and future were all created by God the Father/Creator.
No.
Aaron had 4 sons.
Two died childless.
Ithamar and Eleazar were his surviving sons.
Ithamar was Eli's father.
When the house of Eli was taken away, the house of Zadok (descendant of Eleazar) was chosen.
So Aarons house was was never in question because the priesthood never left Aaron's house.
It was only for Eli's house.
I have stated my opinion that time did not start until earth and the heavens were created. I don't think scripture tells us when TIME began but in my mind only humans need "time". We know that time exists in the universe but is God bound by this universe? What is above the heavens?
Psalm 148:4 - Praise Him, you heaven of heavens and you waters above the heavens!
Is the third heaven outside of the universe?
2 Corinthians 12:2 - I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows
Hebrews 4:14 - Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession
Deuteronomy 10:14 - Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it
I don't know if scripture refers to a first or second heaven but it does refer to the third. I think the first is the atmosphere and sky and the second heaven is the stars and firmament. Then we have scripture that says "above the heavens"
I guess my point (if I have one), is that time seems pointless in the third heaven, therefore "time" is irrelevant BEFORE creation. That does not automatically mean that we have no memory of events that happen(ed) in time nor does it mean that God could not exist before time began. Again, I come to the notion that "time" is only necessary for mankind, we measure time because we need to.
Psalm 148:4 - Praise Him, you heaven of heavens and you waters above the heavens!
Is the third heaven outside of the universe?
2 Corinthians 12:2 - I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows
Hebrews 4:14 - Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession
Deuteronomy 10:14 - Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it
I don't know if scripture refers to a first or second heaven but it does refer to the third. I think the first is the atmosphere and sky and the second heaven is the stars and firmament. Then we have scripture that says "above the heavens"
I guess my point (if I have one), is that time seems pointless in the third heaven, therefore "time" is irrelevant BEFORE creation. That does not automatically mean that we have no memory of events that happen(ed) in time nor does it mean that God could not exist before time began. Again, I come to the notion that "time" is only necessary for mankind, we measure time because we need to.
It loses all meaning to say that God is bound/limited/subject to His creation, to call Him the Creator/Maker.
Which is the anthropomorphic position, that the scriptures only talk about time in relation to God in order for us to have some clue as to what He is like.
I keep beating the "noun" drum because that's really all that's needed to answer the question about God and time, whatever time is or is not, it is simply linguistically impossible for God to be subject to, or limited by, or bound by time, because otherwise, time is God, and God is something else.
Stephen Hawking once said, that for all intents and purposes, gravity is God, because (he said), all that's required to explain the existence of the universe is gravity. The same linguistic analysis proves this notion wrong, since gravity also is a noun, and God is subject to no noun. Nobody ever proposes that God is subject to gravity, or to space, which is another noun, and for me the same principle applies. Time is either a useful fiction, or it is nonfiction, but in either case, God cannot be bound by time, and remain God. So therefore, He is not bound by time.
:idunno:
What about angels?
Can the third heaven exist without being created?
On a side note, science believes the universe is expanding.
What is it expanding into if there is no time and space outside of the universe???
Right Divider
Body part
Angels are created beings and exist within the creation.
My opinion has been that God is unlimited by time and space, people are limited by them, and that angels are less limited than we are, and more limited than is God.
Does that mean you believe angels can move inside and outside of time?
Yep.
I suppose. If angels are less limited by time than we are, then the truth must be something like what you say. But I share the same difficulty as others here in conceiving of what that means, or how that works.