ECT Those who believe will labor to enter the "Rest" of God"

[vfirestormv]

you endevour not :sigh:

Oh but I do endeavour. I do not take any scripture that you give lightly. I try, though hard for any of us to do, to read them without any bias in mind and ask myself, now what do these scriptures say. I assure you, I do not want to be wrong about scripture any less than you do. But all I keep coming back to, though God did deal with man in different ways through the dispensations, is that it all points and are types of the crucified Lord Jesus Christ. It is and has always been by grace through faith.

 

[vfirestormv]

And please all of you do understand, that though we argue, debate, whatever you want to call it, I in no way hate or even dislike any of you.
As I would hope and don't think that any of you hate me. I know that you love the Lord just as much as I do. I came here to help solidify my beliefs by putting them up to scrutiny and if I am in error of anything that hopefully God would show me through His word where I am wrong. So please don't think that I don't respect you, though I may disagree.

 

[Doom]

No, they only knew the Messiah was here. And as I said before it was not fully realized yet, but it is still Christ. Just as the OT Jews sacrificed animals to cover their sins which was looking forward to what? Was it Christ coming? Or was it even though they didn't fully understand it that Christ would come and be our sacrifice?
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

What was David looking forward to? Was Christ crucified at that time?

Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Can YOU or your family be saved by solely believing that Jesus is the Messiah?

 

[vfirestormv]

Can YOU or your family be saved by solely believing that Jesus is the Messiah?

No, the demons know that Jesus is the Messiah as well. I must put my trust and faith in Him.
It is by Faith alone in Him alone. Has been since Adam will be til the close of the book.

How was Job saved?

 

[vfirestormv]

Who does the Bible say that Abraham looked forward to?
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

 

[vfirestormv]

What did Enoch, the seventh from Adam prophecy? (hint: Jude 1:14)
Where did he get that revelation? The Bible wasn't written yet.

 

[musterion]

No

But you said the other day we couldn't say if one is saved by obeying Acts 2:38.

 

[Doom]

No, the demons know that Jesus is the Messiah as well. I must put my trust and faith in Him.
It is by Faith alone in Him alone. Has been since Adam will be til the close of the book.

How was Job saved?

Then why the change from Paul? Why does Paul not preach to the Gentile that they must believe that Jesus is promised Jewish Messiah? Why does Paul say that we are to believe that He died for our sins, was buried and raised? If all that is required is trust and faith that Jesus is the Messiah, why all the addition of His propitiatory death and resurrection?

 

[vfirestormv]

But you said the other day we couldn't say if one is saved by obeying Acts 2:38.

No, please don't go twisting my words as you know well that is not what I said or meant. I said that we could not know that persons heart only God can. No works ever saved any flesh. If that man is depending on works alone to save him he is most certainly lost.
What I said was if that man has faith in Christ and though he thinks he needs works as well, that is God's call. I can not see the heart of man and neither can you.

 

[vfirestormv]

Then why the change from Paul? Why does Paul not preach to the Gentile that they must believe that Jesus is promised Jewish Messiah? Why does Paul say that we are to believe that He died for our sins, was buried and raised? If all that is required is trust and faith that Jesus is the Messiah, why all the addition of His propitiatory death and resurrection?

Because it was fully revealed then.
Was it revealed fully in Moses' day? Yet:
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 

[vfirestormv]

Then why the change from Paul? Why does Paul not preach to the Gentile that they must believe that Jesus is promised Jewish Messiah? Why does Paul say that we are to believe that He died for our sins, was buried and raised? If all that is required is trust and faith that Jesus is the Messiah, why all the addition of His propitiatory death and resurrection?

You seem to be missing the point of all that I am saying. I know that the gospel was brought to man in different ways throughout the dispensations. But it has always been the same gospel. Christ and Him crucified, though not fully revealed until, well I say Acts 2, you may say, Acts,8 ,9,13,22,28 or elsewhere...

 

[vfirestormv]

How was Job saved?

No one want to tackle this? Here, let me help:

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

 

[Cross Reference]

No one want to tackle this? Here, let me help:

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Since no one could, in really, be saved until Jesus gave His life. Job could only live with the promise of salvation __ and he ordered his life to living in that promise, i.e., believing for it.

 

[musterion]

No, please don't go twisting my words as you know well that is not what I said or meant. I said that we could not know that persons heart only God can. No works ever saved any flesh. If that man is depending on works alone to save him he is most certainly lost.
What I said was if that man has faith in Christ and though he thinks he needs works as well, that is God's call. I can not see the heart of man and neither can you.

I really think I am not twisting anything. I had asked you if sincerely believing and obeying Acts 2:38 -- and ONLY that -- could save someone today. You said there's no way to know.

 

[vfirestormv]

Since no one could, in really, be saved until Jesus gave His life. Job could only live with the promise of salvation __ and he ordered his life to living in that promise, i.e., believing for it.

Yes, very true, but it was already written before the foundation of the world.
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

[Gurucam]

'Those who believe will labor to enter the "Rest" of God.'

Why do you suppose that is if, as some boast, they "got it all" when they said the sinners prayer?

While that is true for Israel future,

Are you suggesting that this is about the law? Hence you mention the Jews?

Fact is no one will enter the 'rest' of God' if their labor is to seek to uphold the law.

If by the word 'labor', Cross Reference, means "those who labor according to the New Gospel which is righteousness of God that is without the law (i.e. through unconditional obedience to the Spirit of Jesus) then one can actually answer that question.

Indeed one can get all things through this new system.

 

[vfirestormv]

I really think I am not twisting anything. I had asked you if sincerely believing and obeying Acts 2:38 -- and ONLY that -- could save someone today. You said there's no way to know.

Here is the exact quote from me:

I could never answer that, neither can you. The only one that could is God who knows the heart of man. If he is trusting in Christ then I would say yes. If he is trusting in his own self, stop sinning, he is going to become very frustrated in that he can't do it and I would say no. But again that is not my call. Bad theology doesn't always mean condemnation. There are many that have some wrong views that are saved in spite of themselves.

Edit for clarification: And just to clear up my message, I mean bad theology in the example that you gave of the preacher telling him to repent, meaning to stop sinning. Not What Peter taught in Acts 2:38
If he follows what Peter is talking about to repent, change his mind about sin and toward God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, which means in the authority of. And according to He (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, then yes he is saved.

Again, I said if he is trusting in himself alone I would say no. But it is not my call as I can not see his heart and weather he is trusting Christ. Not my call neither is it yours.

 

[vfirestormv]

I really think I am not twisting anything. I had asked you if sincerely believing and obeying Acts 2:38 -- and ONLY that -- could save someone today. You said there's no way to know.

Furthermore, your question was a two part question. You said let's assume for this analogy his understanding of repentance means stop sinning.

I agree 200% and also believe that's what Peter meant, too. But many people (Christians) today think "repent" = "stop sinning." It's a plank of Lordship Salvation but is definitely not confined to L.S. So given that, just for the purpose of the analogy, assume that's what the preacher means by "repent" and that's what the unbeliever thinks it means...he's got to stop sinning to be saved.

This is what I responded to.
The other I responded to as well
you said:

So back to the unbeliever. He is told to believe and obey Acts 2:38 to be saved. He does so.

Is he saved?

I said:

If he follows what Peter is talking about to repent, change his mind about sin and toward God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, which means in the authority of. And according to He (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, then yes he is saved.

As you can see from the last of my messsage that if he follows Acts 2 that yes he is saved.

You twisted, took what I said about the one and made it into that I said it for the other. Maybe that is your fault, maybe it was mine for responding to both questions in the message. But it was not what I meant, clearly.

 

[heir]

Here is the exact quote from me:


Again, I said if he is trusting in himself alone I would say no. But it is not my call as I can not see his heart and weather he is trusting Christ. Not my call neither is it yours.

If the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (and it is Romans 1:16-17 KJV) then neither Acts 2:38 nor that which is preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or the "everlasting gospel" preached by an angel in Revelation is the power of God to save anyone today!

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!!!!

 

[vfirestormv]

If the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (and it is Romans 1:16-17 KJV) then neither Acts 2:38 nor that which is preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John or the "everlasting gospel" preached by an angel in Revelation is the power of God to save anyone today!

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!!!!

How were any, before the law of Moses, saved, heir?